Bliss Mobil - Base Vehicle Advice

[Eizenjin91]

We have a 13 foot Bliss Mobil unit on order for a few months now. Having to decide on a base vehicle soon. Havent decided if it will be mounted in the states or overseas at the factory. We have narrowed it down to two base vehicles but are completely stuck between the two and would welcome any reccomendations. Max of about 14,00lbs and 24 feet in any configuration.

1) Isuzu FTR 4x4 6.7 Cummins 170” WB
Pros:
cabover reduces length to 22 feet (A long bed dually is 22’ and I have driven those in to parking lots and spots anywhere)

Better offroad capability

Tighter turning radius & maneuverability

Almost nonexistent front/rear overhang

100 gallon vs 8 gallon diesel

Cons:
Bumpers, racks, etc all custom no off the shelf

Comfort of cabover

Did I mention comfort and noise?

Speed/highway driving

Taller at 11’6

Effectively 40% more expensive after 4x4 conversion



2) Ram 5500 4x4 6.7 Cummins 169”WB
Pros:
Much more comfortable on road

Almost half priced

Easily worked on and I’m intricately familiar with the chassis

Effectively unlimited aftermarket bolt on options

Lower at 11’

Base chassis roughly 1,000lbs lighter

Cons:
2 feet longer

Much more rear overhang

Not quite as capable off-road

Cabover looks better as a whole unit



I don’t have very much experience with cabovers. Especially new cabovers such as used in the GXV’s etc. I would love any feedback and suggestions between these two options and peoples experiences with either. Is a 2 foot reduction in length worthsacrificing the comfort?

Thanks everyone

 

[mog]

While I am a big fan of cabovers (Fuso FG and Mercedes 1017A) a 50% difference is a huge amount that will buy a lot of fuel some fuel for travel. And with your familiarity with the Ram that will give you a lot of peace of mind when traveling compared to an unfamiliar and converted truck. And certainly, cabovers have less ride comfort (not much you can do sitting over the axle) with more noise with the engine between you. One more thing to consider depending on your age is the climbing into the cabover, versus the hopping into a conventional truck. Will that be an issue in the near or distant future? Your weight (as in what if I need to be recovered) will be more of a restriction of where you chose to go when off-road, more so than the improved turning radius and approach/departure angles.
Cabovers certainly have 'the look', but a 2-foot difference is <10% for a traded-off in comfort, cost, convenience, etc.

 

[Eizenjin91]

While I am a big fan of cabovers (Fuso FG and Mercedes 1017A) a 50% difference is a huge amount that will buy a lot of fuel some fuel for travel. And with your familiarity with the Ram that will give you a lot of peace of mind when traveling compared to an unfamiliar and converted truck. And certainly, cabovers have less ride comfort (not much you can do sitting over the axle) with more noise with the engine between you. One more thing to consider depending on your age is the climbing into the cabover, versus the hopping into a conventional truck. Will that be an issue in the near or distant future? Your weight (as in what if I need to be recovered) will be more of a restriction of where you chose to go when off-road, more so than the improved turning radius and approach/departure angles.
Cabovers certainly have 'the look', but a 2-foot difference is <10% for a traded-off in comfort, cost, convenience, etc.

Super helpful. I’ve had a lot of these thoughts one off but great to see it put down to paper like this. Agreed, the price difference is shipping to every continent and lots of beer and food and fuel. It’s definitely a completely unknown and new to me platform. I feel like I’m trying to talk myself in to a cabover for the 2 feet and turning radius vs what I like and feel comfortable with. Not to mention no one has actually converted an FTR to 4x4 yet even if they say they can do it and have pricing. Thanks for the reply and thoughts!

 

[mog]

Not to mention no one has actually converted an FTR to 4x4 yet even if they say they can do it and have pricing. Thanks for the reply and thoughts!

I don't know who you are looking at, but EZ TRAC makes a 'hydraulic AWD front axle for the FTR (2005 and newer) with Info here. While a Mitsubishi, not an Isuzu, Darrin Fink converted two FM260 way back in the day with 'approval' from Mitsubishi, which is a similar size cabover. If you are interested there are some threads on the Expo Portal; HERE , HERE , and HERE .

 

[Blowby]

Congratulations on your purchase of a 13' Blissmobil!
We have also been considering the 13' Bliss box or possibly an Earthcruiser.For the vehicle of choice for a Bliss we
had been looking at either the Core chassis from Earthcruiser or the Straya from Acela,obviously these are
gas powered and not Diesel but I can definitely see your dilemma between your two options.
For me it is hard to picture the Bliss on a Ram as it is a rather tall box on a pickup,besides the technical aspects I would
have to do a couple of scaled renderings so that I could see what they would actually look like in the flesh once mounted.
Good luck with your choice!
Cheers Roger

 

[Eizenjin91]

Congratulations on your purchase of a 13' Blissmobil!
We have also been considering the 13' Bliss box or possibly an Earthcruiser.For the vehicle of choice for a Bliss we
had been looking at either the Core chassis from Earthcruiser or the Straya from Acela,obviously these are
gas powered and not Diesel but I can definitely see your dilemma between your two options.
For me it is hard to picture the Bliss on a Ram as it is a rather tall box on a pickup,besides the technical aspects I would
have to do a couple of scaled renderings so that I could see what they would actually look like in the flesh once mounted.
Good luck with your choice!
Cheers Roger

We looked at those two chassis as well as a complete EC. We ended up going bliss for hard sides and we like the high bed and interior layout better. EC’s are great vehicles though. The Straya was of definite interest to us as it fits what we are looking for much better than the Monterra from them. I’m still leaning towards diesel for a number of reasons. We have spent a few years living part time in Southern Africa (we are here now) and Ad-Blue is easily found here along with 50PPM diesel (not ULSD and not LSD) which is low enough to run in a Cummins without issue. The largest issue for me with the Straya regardlsss of diesel power is fuel tank size and range. I have tried numerous times to have companies make me aux of larger main tanks for petrol and no one will do it. That leaves a Ram/Ford or the Isuzu for me personally for newer vehicles. I agree with a big box on a pickup. The only way to do it effectively is to do the “Alcove” option on the bliss with opens to the internal area and external hatches. It also “finishes out” the rig and makes it flow better. See attached mock-up below for interest.
It’s fun to hear we are in the same market and thoughts and I will be interested to see what you end up with. Feel free to chip back in if you have any more thoughts or ideas @Blowby. Thanks!

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Have you actually DRIVEN both Chassis yet???

Disregard everything else and DRIVE both of them before making a huge decision like this...

I cant for the life of me understand the hype of Fuso based vehicles after driving a few of them. I had consider the platform for my build until i drove a couple, and then quickly took it off the list...

Look cool and "expo-ish"? Sure.., if that's your thing. But they drive like a school bus...

For each is own of course, i have a couple friends that have them and LOVE them, but its all personal preference.

DRIVE each one yourself

 

[Blowby]

We looked at those two chassis as well as a complete EC. We ended up going bliss for hard sides and we like the high bed and interior layout better. EC’s are great vehicles though. The Straya was of definite interest to us as it fits what we are looking for much better than the Monterra from them. I’m still leaning towards diesel for a number of reasons. We have spent a few years living part time in Southern Africa (we are here now) and Ad-Blue is easily found here along with 50PPM diesel (not ULSD and not LSD) which is low enough to run in a Cummins without issue. The largest issue for me with the Straya regardlsss of diesel power is fuel tank size and range. I have tried numerous times to have companies make me aux of larger main tanks for petrol and no one will do it. That leaves a Ram/Ford or the Isuzu for me personally for newer vehicles. I agree with a big box on a pickup. The only way to do it effectively is to do the “Alcove” option on the bliss with opens to the internal area and external hatches. It also “finishes out” the rig and makes it flow better. See attached mock-up below for interest. View attachment 724036

Thanks for posting the renderings as that it exactly what I was interested in seeing and with those dimensions I will
have to do some comparisons.
With the rear lift added it definitely adds some length to the overall dimension from the rear axle.Love the Alcove idea and that
definitely makes the truck more functional.
As RAM5500 mentioned the ride is definitely a lot more comfortable in this configuration,but we are also looking at the fact that we
want a pass thru and it definitely would be a challenge to do this comfortably in the pickup.

 

[DiploStrat]

Had a camper based on a 2013 Chevrolet 3500 HD. Have a camper based on a 1990 MB 917. Driven both across the US, and back, more than once.

Why would you consider an Izuzu to be more capable off road? And where are you going "off-road" with a house on your back?

Building today, would go with a 5500 series conventional truck.

No question.

 

[Eizenjin91]

Have you actually DRIVEN both Chassis yet???

Disregard everything else and DRIVE both of them before making a huge decision like this...

I cant for the life of me understand the hype of Fuso based vehicles after driving a few of them. I had consider the platform for my build until i drove a couple, and then quickly took it off the list...

Look cool and "expo-ish"? Sure.., if that's your thing. But they drive like a school bus...

For each is own of course, i have a couple friends that have them and LOVE them, but its all personal preference.

DRIVE each one yourself

Nope! Never driven a cabover. I thjnk your right I need to get behind They also make it very difficult to find somewhere to test drive one. I have a buddy who is a Fuso mechanic in Canada and he just talks about how they drive like a bus and no cab comfort and I would be so much happier with the ram. I’ve driven the hell out of Rams in gnarly situations from the Arctic in winter to mud and Panama beach sand. I know the platform and it’s just as comfy cruising at 75 without needing PCI intercoms to talk to your partner. Thanks for your advice buddy and I always love your build and YouTube vids.

Thanks for posting the renderings as that it exactly what I was interested in seeing and with those dimensions I will
have to do some comparisons.
With the rear lift added it definitely adds some length to the overall dimension from the rear axle.Love the Alcove idea and that
definitely makes the truck more functional.
As RAM5500 mentioned the ride is definitely a lot more comfortable in this configuration,but we are also looking at the fact that we
want a pass thru and it definitely would be a challenge to do this comfortably in the pickup.

For what it’s worth, I’ve been told a pass through is not possible with a Bliss on the Ram chassis as the box sits too high and cab too low. Glad this helps I think it really pulls it together vs a square on the back of a “pickup”. Also, we are not doing a moto lift. Nothing off the back end behind the spares.

Had a camper based on a 2013 Chevrolet 3500 HD. Have a camper based on a 1990 MB 917. Driven both across the US, and back, more than once.

Why would you consider an Izuzu to be more capable off road? And where are you going "off-road" with a house on your back?

Building today, would go with a 5500 series conventional truck.

No question.

Clearance and overhang/departure angle. Especially in Southern Africa during the wet these bigger cabover chassis have the clearance to get through bigger mud bogs and flooded out areas just by chassis design. But I also agree you’re 100% correct that you’re only going so many places with a house on your back. The point is to get out somewhere remote and enjoy being way out there with a house and the ability to stay for a long time vs trying to press extreme trails and test limits. I just happen to have a bad habit of pushing farther and getting in where I probably shouldn’t. Thanks for your suggestion! Even with the arguably greater off-road capability im still leaning towards the 5500 as well. I don’t care where you overland 70% of time is spent transiting and 30% is spent in the rough stuff.

 

[rruff]

Clearance and overhang/departure angle. Especially in Southern Africa during the wet these bigger cabover chassis have the clearance to get through bigger mud bogs and flooded out areas just by chassis design. But I also agree you’re 100% correct that you’re only going so many places with a house on your back.

Cool rig!

Curious, where besides S Africa will you be driving it? Where will it be registered? Why the Cummins? Why are Mercedes truck options out?

I can certainly believe that on road comfort is going to be better with the Ram... but if you are really exploring in the rough (vs driving 1,000 miles to a destination for a few days), then I'd consider road performance fairly minor. Even with a 70-30% split that 30% in the rough is going to be way less comfortable than the time you spend cruising!

I've spent very little time in cabovers, and they were certainly short on comfort, but these were delivery trucks. I have to believe that a well sorted rig with good suspension, seats, and tires would be a lot better. One thing I absolutely love about them is forward visibility. With a pickup you have to map out your path well in advance. Sure, a spotter and cameras can mitigate that, but it still isn't as good. Turning circle is very nice as well.

I would not buy a modern diesel unless I had the option to delete the emissions. But if the Cummins is common in the places you plan to go, that would be a factor.

Regarding the alcove, that looks like a standard piece? Bliss won't custom build one to fit your cab better?

 

[DiploStrat]

...
Clearance and overhang/departure angle. Especially in Southern Africa during the wet these bigger cabover chassis have the clearance to get through bigger mud bogs and flooded out areas just by chassis design. But I also agree you’re 100% correct that you’re only going so many places with a house on your back. The point is to get out somewhere remote and enjoy being way out there with a house and the ability to stay for a long time vs trying to press extreme trails and test limits. I just happen to have a bad habit of pushing farther and getting in where I probably shouldn’t. Thanks for your suggestion! Even with the arguably greater off-road capability im still leaning towards the 5500 as well. I don’t care where you overland 70% of time is spent transiting and 30% is spent in the rough stuff.

Dude, there isn't enough rain in Southern Africa for a real wet season. There is enough to turn the pans into bottomless pits, but you won't be driving on a pan unless you simply love digging. And even then, it probably won't help. FWIW, Kalahari sand is actually quite dense (unlike Sahara sand) and it is much harder to get stuck.

Unless you are going with a 5 ton truck, there is no meaningful difference in ground clearance. Especially as the Japanese do love their low cabs and tiny wheels. If you are going to use a 550, you are going to have to find some way to mount big tires.

If you have not read this, it is worth consideration. (And their truck is low.) http://www.travelin-tortuga.com/Travelin-Tortuga/africa/overview.html

Final thought - most of southern Africa is paved - even the trans-Kalahari road to Maun. You can still find plenty of challenges, but not like in the old days.

 

[Eizenjin91]

Dude, there isn't enough rain in Southern Africa for a real wet season. There is enough to turn the pans into bottomless pits, but you won't be driving on a pan unless you simply love digging. And even then, it probably won't help. FWIW, Kalahari sand is actually quite dense (unlike Sahara sand) and it is much harder to get stuck.

Unless you are going with a 5 ton truck, there is no meaningful difference in ground clearance. Especially as the Japanese do love their low cabs and tiny wheels. If you are going to use a 550, you are going to have to find some way to mount big tires.

If you have not read this, it is worth consideration. (And their truck is low.) http://www.travelin-tortuga.com/Travelin-Tortuga/africa/overview.html

Final thought - most of southern Africa is paved - even the trans-Kalahari road to Maun. You can still find plenty of challenges, but not like in the old days.

Yep the Chinese keep paving everything! It’s getting ridiculous now definitely not like the good days when it was much more adventurous and gravel for thousands of k’s. Yep I’m familiar with travelin Tortuga. The kalahari sand is good it’s the black cotton soil that gets ya but I’m not sure being cabover or 5500 matters in that situation hahah. I’m thinking more of the issue being it’s too wide to take some of the work arounds. We took a quick trip over to Chobe about a month ago and the holes on the way to Linyanti from Kasane were full full of water. No issue in our Hilux as we just take the bypass. The issue we were thinking about there is that about 90% of the bypasses would be physically too narrow for a Bliss to get through which would require going straight through the water holes. Yeah we will be going 41” Goodyear if we do the 5500.

Cool rig!

Curious, where besides S Africa will you be driving it? Where will it be registered? Why the Cummins? Why are Mercedes truck options out?

I can certainly believe that on road comfort is going to be better with the Ram... but if you are really exploring in the rough (vs driving 1,000 miles to a destination for a few days), then I'd consider road performance fairly minor. Even with a 70-30% split that 30% in the rough is going to be way less comfortable than the time you spend cruising!

I've spent very little time in cabovers, and they were certainly short on comfort, but these were delivery trucks. I have to believe that a well sorted rig with good suspension, seats, and tires would be a lot better. One thing I absolutely love about them is forward visibility. With a pickup you have to map out your path well in advance. Sure, a spotter and cameras can mitigate that, but it still isn't as good. Turning circle is very nice as well.

I would not buy a modern diesel unless I had the option to delete the emissions. But if the Cummins is common in the places you plan to go, that would be a factor.

Regarding the alcove, that looks like a standard piece? Bliss won't custom build one to fit your cab better?

Registered in the USA is the issue. We have residency in Namibia and looked at that to just buy a vehicle here for it but same issues with us TIP. We looked at registering it in Europe with a Euro 5 TGM but then we think it limits us too much on trying to temporarily import it to the states to use it since our citizenship is US and a nightmare of paperwork on every border crossing/checkpoint with nothing matching. Talked with a Aussie couple who have a TGM registered out of Europe with a Krug and they’ve had some issues even just in Europe where they’ve been. We would like to do a lot of Europe and then over across Siberia to Vladivostok. Canada and Alaska I have 0 concern about spent tons of time in both. South America maybe? Haven’t gotten that far. A year or so in Australia for sure. We work remotely so time isn’t an issue especially with the continual rollout of starlink. I think deletes are pretty easily solvable on the 6.7 Cummins but the issue is on any platform with a modern Diesel engine deleted is the lack of ULSD availability most places the engine still won’t like that sulfur content.

 

[jk6661]

I hope this isn’t too off topic, but I read somewhere that it’s hard to get American trucks (e.g. Ram) serviced outside of North America. As in, you‘ll probably have to get whatever part shipped from the U.S., and good luck finding a mechanic who can install it (for people like me with no mechanical skills). Is that still true, or are there sufficient parts\dealers\mechanics in most places now for American trucks.

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

I hope this isn’t too off topic, but I read somewhere that it’s hard to get American trucks (e.g. Ram) serviced outside of North America. As in, you‘ll probably have to get whatever part shipped from the U.S., and good luck finding a mechanic who can install it (for people like me with no mechanical skills). Is that still true, or are there sufficient parts\dealers\mechanics in most places now for American trucks.

Fords and their parts/dealer network have a MUCH larger reach world wide than Ram, generally speaking

But…. It’s obviously country and region specific as to which brands are where really…

You say you have no mechanic skills and thinking of building a global travel vehicle??? Ummmm