Bolt-on portals land cruiser axles

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Cool bit of design, manufacturing, and engineering.

I have to wonder how well it would work long term. When I was driving Type 4 engines for the BLM a few decades ago, they where trying to use Unimogs in a few places. They could never get them to hold together for that long. The maintenance on the vehicle was extensive and expensive. The combination of trying to go fast on the highway and carry heavy weight off-road, was a big challenge. We finally convinced then to look at even heavier vehicles like the Tatra trucks. The last I heard they where holding together pretty well, but the overall cost of the vehicle was so it was prohibitive.

Anyhow....

I wonder what would be better for roughly the same amount of ground clearance. A portal axle with a smaller tire or a straight axle with a larger tire?
 

Haf-E

Expedition Leader
I wonder what would be better for roughly the same amount of ground clearance. A portal axle with a smaller tire or a straight axle with a larger tire?

Depends on a lot of factors - such as use - a 44 tire and straight axle is probably better for rock crawling - a portal axle with a smaller tire is better for expedition use as the tire is smaller and lighter - which is easier on the suspension and brakes and leaves weight capacity left for supplies etc. Two spare 44 inch tires takes up a lot of space and weighs a lot!
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Depends on a lot of factors - such as use - a 44 tire and straight axle is probably better for rock crawling - a portal axle with a smaller tire is better for expedition use as the tire is smaller and lighter - which is easier on the suspension and brakes and leaves weight capacity left for supplies etc. Two spare 44 inch tires takes up a lot of space and weighs a lot!

If your doing expedition type work do you really need bigger tires or more ground clearance?

Is carrying two spare tires ever practical?

The portal box adds weight, complexity, and leverage to the axle housing....

A larger spare tire takes up a LOT of space, that is for sure.

The larger/wider tire should work better in sand, deep snow, and maybe mud.
 

Haf-E

Expedition Leader
Carrying two spares is very practical if your tire size is not common or you are in a remote area. It is true that you can often be ok with one spare but then you might need to spend time finding a replacement and waiting for it to arrive if you needed to replace one tire. Dual spares also allows for a six tire rotation which is good for directional tires & AWD drive vehicles (particularly with viscous coupling systems like Syncros). I've only had two flats once - and one tire was damaged beyond repair - so even when we plugged the one tire we were left with no usable spare. Fortunately the tire size was a common one.

The real challenge with very large tires is the rotating mass issue - more work to accelerate and slow back down - need lower gearing which adds stress to the driveshafts etc. It would be interesting to know what the weight of a Tibus portal box is compared to the larger tire option. The leverage issue can be addressed and doesn't seem to be that much of an issue.

Another benefit of the bolt on type portals is that the axle parts can remain standard - so spare parts would be available if something broke in the diff or axle itself.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Two spare tires. I guess it depends on the scope and duration of the trip. I have done multi-thousand mile trips that included hundreds of miles of hard off-road driving with no spare tire. I always have OBA, plug kit, a way to break down the tire, patch kit, and a last ditch tube. I have been using my old Willys flat fender for the last few years. I did finally pick up a spare tire and designed a storage solution, but it isn't my favorite. I don't have any problem breaking down tires myself and repairing them. I guess it just boils down to comfort level.

Rotating mass. I don't think it is THAT big of a deal for off road use. We aren't trying to set 0-60 records. I do think braking performance is often overlooked, but I see that be an issue because of the total vehicle weight as much as tire size.

Leverage. On a steering axle you can't really work around this. Since the entire knuckle has to move, you are generally always isolated to the bearing/balljoint system at the kingpin axis. The other interesting part with bolt-on portal boxes would be the additional offset, outboard, in combination with the leverage from the tire being effectively taller. Most factory portal axles like the Volvo C303 or unimog axles used very high backspacing to keep scrub radius ( and knuckle leverage ) in check.

Axle Parts. Axle parts. While the axle parts remain standard to some degree, most of the stress is going to be on the custom portal boxes. If they are built right it shouldn't be an issue. Custom is custom however. I would hope that the brake, wheel bearings, etc would be standard parts.

The Tibus axles are a very neat 4 gear design that keeps everything spinning the right direction. Most OEM portal axles use a 2 gear design and basically 'flip' the rotation of the ring and pinion relative the vehicle direction....Volvo, Unimog, Hummer, etc.
 

Flagster

Expedition Leader
Cool bit of design, manufacturing, and engineering.

I have to wonder how well it would work long term. When I was driving Type 4 engines for the BLM a few decades ago, they where trying to use Unimogs in a few places. They could never get them to hold together for that long. The maintenance on the vehicle was extensive and expensive. The combination of trying to go fast on the highway and carry heavy weight off-road, was a big challenge. We finally convinced then to look at even heavier vehicles like the Tatra trucks. The last I heard they where holding together pretty well, but the overall cost of the vehicle was so it was prohibitive.

Anyhow....

I wonder what would be better for roughly the same amount of ground clearance. A portal axle with a smaller tire or a straight axle with a larger tire?

Haha I worked with a guy who used to work BLM fire out of LasVegas and all he would talk about is leaving unimogs all over after they broke down...
 

toylandcruiser

Expedition Leader
Cool bit of design, manufacturing, and engineering.

I have to wonder how well it would work long term. When I was driving Type 4 engines for the BLM a few decades ago, they where trying to use Unimogs in a few places. They could never get them to hold together for that long. The maintenance on the vehicle was extensive and expensive. The combination of trying to go fast on the highway and carry heavy weight off-road, was a big challenge. We finally convinced then to look at even heavier vehicles like the Tatra trucks. The last I heard they where holding together pretty well, but the overall cost of the vehicle was so it was prohibitive.

Anyhow....

I wonder what would be better for roughly the same amount of ground clearance. A portal axle with a smaller tire or a straight axle with a larger tire?

That's not the story I read about the unimogs.
 

CreeperSleeper

Looking for bigger rocks.
The website says max tire size for the bolt on portals is 35"... I would rather swap Volvo portals in at that point.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
The website says max tire size for the bolt on portals is 35"... I would rather swap Volvo portals in at that point.

good point. the Volvo stuff isn't getting any easier or cheaper to find though.
I wish that company in utah would have gotten the idea off the ground to reproduce Volvo type portal axle ends.
 

Haf-E

Expedition Leader
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