Build current Ram 2500 vs Power Wagon/Tremor/3500?

[GeorgeHayduke]

Hi all, I have a 2016 Ram 2500 crew cab short bed that's been our adventure rig for the last couple years but I'm starting to think about making a change. I'm hoping for some input from the collective wisdom here as I feel like I'm going round in circles.

The truck is a 6.7 Cummins with the g56 manual transmission and 60,000 miles. Stock except for 285/75/R18 Cooper AT3 XLT's. It gets used for weekend trips in CO, skiing in the winter, and usually a couple longer 1-2 week trips around the West each summer. Our usual cargo is a Northstar TC650 popup plus the wife, kid, and dog. It's not a daily driver, but isn't a dedicated camper either and gets used for various other truck duties (home depot trips, firewood, mulch, etc). I'm interested in somewhat competing interests of moving up to a hardside camper for longer trips/colder weather but also improving our offroad capability.

Some pics from various past adventures in the San Juans, Moab, Wind River range, etc:





Reasons to change
Manual trans, payload, and offroadability. The g56 manual transmission seemed super cool when I was shopping but in retrospect I'm not sure it was the right choice. The g56 trucks are heavily detuned from the factory and torque management/dead pedal on the 2016 trucks is pretty frustrating. To be totally honest it's not much fun to drive for me and wife won't drive it at all.

Also, the coil sprung rear suspension on the Ram 2500's is not great for high COG loads like truck campers. Even our relatively lightweight popup (~1500 pounds) causes a lot of sway. Timbrens and an aftermarket swaybar help, but offroad performance and unloaded ride suffer. Fully loaded, we run about 11,000 pounds total. I don't worry too much about being over the artificially limited GVWR on a 3/4 ton, but I do care about staying within axle weight ratings and having the truck perform well at loaded weight and on bad roads.

Decisions
I've been thinking about a couple different vehicle builds and would be interested to hear everyone's opinions about what to do going forward

Option 0) Do nothing, save my money, stop whining. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and the truck has been super reliable thus far. No issues with emissions equipment or DEF that people often worry about.

Option 1) Build the current 2500 to improve offroad performance and fun factor. Tune the engine to help power/drivability, plus the inevitable clutch upgrade. Warranty is just about up anyways. Regear to 4.10's + lockers for 37" tires and Carli or Thuren suspension with 2.5 Kings. Front bumper, sliders, and a winch. Pros: I know the truck and its history, it's paid off, a turbocharged diesel is nice for Colorado's high elevations, and manual transmissions are becoming a rarity. Cons: jack of all trades but master of none, heavy diesel isn't ideal for offroading and I don't tow much where the diesel would really pay off.

Option 2) Switch to a 2019+ Power Wagon. In 2016 I didn't like the 68RFE trans on the Power Wagons, but now the new 8 speed makes it much more appealing. All the offroad goodies straight from the factory would be great, plus the gasser opens up options south of the border. I'm comfortable reinforcing the power wagon suspension with airbags/timbrens to carry a popup camper, but a hardside might be pushing too far. Pros: incredibly capable from factory, very familiar with the rig's size and interior, potential for fitting 37's from the factory. Cons: gas mileage, payload, maybe a lot of work to switch for something not all that different from what I already have.

Option 3) Switch to a 2020 Ram 3500 with 6.7 Cummins, crew cab, and 8' bed. I've definitely wished for an 8' bed many times for various house and woodworking projects and of the crew cab long bed trucks Ram has the best wheelbase and turning radius. The 50 gallon tanks in the 2020 models is appealing, as is the 3.73 gears they come with instead of my 3.42's Would likely switch over to a hardside camper and stick to more moderate trails or tow a dedicated trail rig. Maybe flatbed in the future. Pros: would do dedicated heavy hauler truck things better than the other options, tons of range, leaf springs. Cons: longer wheelbase, no improvement in offroad capability, heavy.

Option 4) Switch to a Super Duty Tremor with 7.3 gasser. Looks like it would provide 90% of the Power Wagon's offroad capabilities while still having good payload for a truck camper. The 7.3 gasser + 4.30 gears + 10 speed trans should be pretty potent. Ford paint and hail resistance are much better than Ram's. Crew cab and short bed are bigger than Ram equivalents (of course then the wheelbase is almost the same as the Ram CCLB). More expensive than PW when outfitted similarly, and I prefer the Ram interior. All-arounder like current 2500 but should be better at both offroading and carrying a camper.

What would you all do in my shoes? Help me see the forest for the trees. Thanks!

 

[phsycle]

You don’t tow enough to justify a diesel.
You prefer an auto.
You need better payload.
You need decent off-roadability, but nothing hard core.

Answer is, Tremor. Factory 35’s, rear locker, great engine/trans combo, good payload, 4.30’s.

 

[Regcabguy]

If debt is not an issue a Tremor with $6K worth of Carli upgrades might be the answer. Thuren can tune King 2.5's to greatly improve handling,a True Trac upgrade from the Mopar unit is supposed to help. I have an SBC OKHD flywheel. It'll hold a 90 hp,35's,2200# 2244/7 load and it's smooth
My TC800 tips the scales at #2200 wet with "stuff" and jacks. Aside from Ford's new 7.3 I couldn't imagine a gasser with it's high rpms struggling up hills.
Banks has their lag killer that detunes for reverse. https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...=2ahUKEwjZws6K99zqAhVkHzQIHTPVDJoQ0Qx6BAgNEAE
Going into debt to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars is the only recourse if you want to use a gasser.

 

[Halligan]

You really need to decide if the 8' bed is a must have because that rules out 4 of the 5 options you have listed.

 

[Buliwyf]

If you're going to go full Carli, don't waste it on a Tremor. Save money by getting a regular 250 to start with. Keep a Tremor stockish. Otherwise you're paying for hop up parts twice. (I'll gladly buy your Trmors running boards though.)

Tremors have lots of bling. A gas Tremor costs as much as a diesel XLT FX4.

I'd go with option 1 or 4. The new auto Cummins still has the dead pedal that you don't like.

Research a 4.56 gear for you manual trans. That might help, especially with the torque limiter. My old 7.3 F550 had that gear on stock 32" tires. Ran fine, I didn't go 90mph ever.

Hardside camper means get at least 3500 cargo capacity. That'll be a 350 Tremor maybe. Not a 250. Recommend staying under 2000# for SRW overlanding. Check out Bundutecs Bunduvry, and Bundutray.

IME, short bed or long bed, a camper just gets a bigger dinette and rear closet with most camper brands. No real reason to go long bed sometimes. With a tray, I'd definitely go longer, to get a real bathroom, and a side entry.

 

[gillbrak]

Option one with a flatbed. If you’re hauling a hard side or even a pop up, I’d bet you won’t use all that the PW has to offer. I have a 19 PW and wish I opted for a megacab gasser instead. Ram interior is much smaller than my 17 F250 Powerstroke work truck.


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[Pnwfullsize]

I switched from an 04 cummins with the manual and long bed to a 2012 cclb cummins to finally a 2018 power wagon. I have 0 complaints, and im sure the 8 speed would be even better.

I would say however, buy the truck that works best with how you want to outfit it. For a while i was kicking myself for selling the 04. The 5.9cummins and manual were perfect, it was paid for and i could have used the money saved to put a flatbed and 4wc flatbed grandby on it. The 2012 was simply to big for what i wanted to do, so it was a no brainer to switch to powerwagon and get the shorter wheelbase and offroad goodies. Plus i wanted to get away from diesels as i dont tow anything heavy. It also worked for us because i went from wanting a 4wc or other popup camper to wanting an offroad trailer. The base camp set up and ability to drop the trailer and go fool around on trails in the truck is just what we wanted.

I love the power wagon. Always been a ram guy and i prefer the feel of them and the interior over the ford's. Have a deposit down on a boreas xt and that should really be the cherry on top.

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

Seems like votes for 1, 2, and 4 so far, I guess it's a little reassuring I'm not the only one with a wide range of ideas. I struggle with the diesel vs gas a lot, normally it would be obvious that I don't tow enough to justify a diesel but we do so many trips at over 10,000' of elevation with steep mountains that a turbocharged engine and exhaust brake are pretty valuable.

An 8' bed would be really nice but alone isn't quite enough to motivate me to change trucks. However, combine that with the factory 50 gallon tank, deeper gears, and auto trans and it starts looking appealing. In terms of size, a Ram CCLB wheelbase is 169", the Tremor is 160" and my current 2500 or a Power Wagon is 149". The Tremor and Ram CCLB actually have the same turn diameter of 53.5'. Maybe this is a slippery slope, but if the Tremor is on the table it seems like the long bed Ram doesn't give up anything in terms of agility.

I suppose I could put an 8' tray on the current 2500 and have the cargo and turn radius benefits. They look a little goofy to me that way but maybe it's worth considering.

Good point as well about not wasting money on both Tremor and Carli parts. I was really only thinking of Carli stuff if I build the current 2500, otherwise the budget would be spent on switching trucks and I'd leave the next one mostly stock for a while.

 

[chigga]

On the plus side is when you decide to sell your current truck, people will be willing to pay fair/good value for it.

I'd ********** on some AEV fenders/bumpers + 40"s immediately along with some Carli suspension.

 

[jonathon]

You’ve got a nice truck and it’s got the best mod of all time; it’s paid for. There’s always something better.

 

[Trixxx]

If you're going to go full Carli, don't waste it on a Tremor. Save money by getting a regular 250 to start with. Keep a Tremor stockish. Otherwise you're paying for hop up parts twice. (I'll gladly buy your Trmors running boards though.)

Tremors have lots of bling. A gas Tremor costs as much as a diesel XLT FX4.

I'd go with option 1 or 4. The new auto Cummins still has the dead pedal that you don't like.

The suspension isn’t really a selling point for many with the Tremor (it’s not much better than stock). You do, however, get the 18“ wheels with 35’s, locking rear diff, differential breather tubes for deeper water fording, tremor side steps, shortened front air dam. Not saying everyone needs that, but it’s certainly a lot more than just a mediocre suspension package.


I would vote for the 7.3L Tremor option.

FYI - I wouldn’t let the diesel be a major deterrent if you want to go south. They get good mileage, and you can get a Titan tank or aux tank and have a 750-1000+ mile range pretty easily.

 

[Buliwyf]

Agree to a point. But replacing the wheel, tires, and then the entire suspension......negates the whole point of the Tremor package.

Wheels and Tires. $3000-3500.
Diff breathers. $20.
Shortened front air dam. Free.
Elocker. Free.

Cool running boards, and an LSD front diff are all that you really get. It's just the 2017 suspension with shocks that try to replicate Fox 2.0's.

Only real draw for me, is the "Tremor'' package locks out all of the terrible senior citizen soccer daddy options. Like 3.55 gears, limited slip rear, two tone paint, or what ever awful combinations the meth dealer guys come up with. So you can get a decent truck off the lot without wasting time reading through the secret decoder book of options packages.

My favorite dealer has a dozen of the worst spec'd Ford's that I've ever seen. I asked, his reply: ''Half of our customer base has very, VERY bad taste in trucks. That's why I laugh every time Ford brags about being the #1 best seller.''

Not sure if we should really include the wheels and tires, as we can all do better. Duratracs aren't going to last long anyways. So maybe that's just a $1500 bill for wheels, to be fair. If the Tremor came in a long bed, and was priced just a hair lower (Tremor XL or XLT), I'd get one. But at this point, I already have a Tremor (XL).

 

[phsycle]

Good point as well about not wasting money on both Tremor and Carli parts. I was really only thinking of Carli stuff if I build the current 2500, otherwise the budget would be spent on switching trucks and I'd leave the next one mostly stock for a while.

My post was with an assumption you wouldn’t be modding the suspension. Stock with 35’s is pretty nice. Locker out back and LSD front will get you through a lot of trails. Trails you’d take a full-size rig on anyway. You also get the factory warranty. That’s the way I’d go if I were getting a new HD truck anyway.

 

[Buliwyf]

Long bed hurt your break over a bit. Turning radius is a meaningless spec, don't sweat that. Those numbers are never accurate anyways. And also, LB adds a carrier bearing to the driveshaft.

Keep an eye out for long beds in your area. Note how much more exposed the drive shaft is. It's minor, but it's there.

 

[PaxG56]

I'm biased as the owner of a 17 Ram 2500 with the G56 manual (hence the G56 in the user name). I love the manual and agree that torque management is horrible and if I load any boost pulling out the clutch slips so I understand why they restricted torque. I'm still planning my clutch upgrade and tune but need to convince myself that I really need it since the AEV kit with 40s won out last time. I've regeared to 4.10s and wouldn't recommend you go any higher since our trucks have different drive ratios than the automatics. The one thing you do get in the manual is great control of the exhaust (turbo) brake.

Everything is a compromise and 11k lbs trucks will never feel great offroad. If you intend to continue putting campers in the bed I think the clear choice is #3 since the leaf springs will help with the sway. Any offroad suspensions will likely increase sway since the softness will be magnified with increased weight and COG.