Build Weight Master Thread

jaymar

Member
I think largely it comes down to statistics.

Statistically speaking, I'm far more likely to hit a deer with my 100 Series than I am to hit another car, especially considering the locales I'm using the Cruiser for. Hence the front bumper. I wanted that because I have smacked a few deer with an ARB before and had zero damage aside from a busted fog light. I'm also choosing the ARB because it's airbag compatible, so if something freak does occur I can count on the safety features still working.

Beyond that, statistics say I'm far more likely to have a slow-speed collision if I do hit another car. A slow speed rear-end collision is unlikely to damage the rear bumper I chose. Same consideration with a front-end crash. Damage will be minimal. If I get t-boned, well I'm screwed regardless. But that's not statistically likely.

Frankly, I've been unfortunate enough in my youth to have been involved in multiple slow-to-mid-speed collisions. I've rear-ended someone, I've been rear-ended, I've been t-boned, and I've done my share of other stupid things. I've never been injured or even sore afterwards. In that case, I'd much prefer my vehicle not sustain damage to the body panels. If I'm going to get hit and it doesn't cause me any injury, I'd like to not spend any money or time fixing my truck.

In the case of higher speed accidents, the point is moot. The ARB is airbag-compatible, so if I hit something hard enough, that's that. It crumples, the airbag goes off, I shove my face into the world's least comfortable pillow.

The rear bumper, while more robust than the factory setup, is a similar situation. If I have a hard enough impact, that bumper is unlikely to make much of a difference. In the case of the 100 Series, the rear frame crossmember is actually aft of the rear hatch. The rear bumper is of similar strength, so I really doubt there's much of a difference. Besides, rear-end collisions are going to just suck me into my seat and possible throw my head into the headrest. That's why the "headrest" is there.
40% of all accidents involve one vehicle rear-ending another*, so Big Iron front and rear is likely to help. Don't underestimate the value of sliders, though; they can keep a car from coming through the door, maybe even deflect in underneath depending on the relative heights of the vehicles and the shape of whatever hits you. Me I drive around L.A. a lot more often than I drive offroad, so statistically speaking, I'm far more likely to get hit by another vehicle than a kangaroo. Or deer for that matter...

Oh, in the 80 (probably all subsequent models as well), the airbag is tied into an on-board accelerometer. So it likely doesn't matter what you hang on the front end (or probably even if you remove the front bumper and leave it that way)--if you decelerate fast enough, that airbag's gonna pop.

*The rest, according to insurance forms, occur between two cars parked in the same lot, with no driver in either. :)
 

jaymar

Member
I was recently having this discussion over on ih8mud regarding the 100 Series. An owner from Australia chimed in when talking about weight, and it led to some interesting discussion.

The basic gist of it is, the 100 Series has a different rating in the US vs Australia for exactly comparable vehicles. The US version only ever received one trim level, with one engine and standardized options (for the most part - there are some minor exceptions). In Australia, there are multiple options and trim levels, but that should not impact the GVWR/GVM at all, only the curb weight and thus the payload. The important thing is that the frame, axles, and suspension are the same, which they are. The US spec Land Cruiser has a listed curb weight of 5360# and a GVWR of 6830#, for a payload of 1470#. An exactly spec'd Land Cruiser in Australia has a curb weight of 5360# as well, but a GVM of 7187#, or 357 pounds more than that same vehicle in the United States. Comparing apples to apples, the vehicles are basically identical other than driving position. Interesting to note that Toyota themselves (conservatively) recommend a maximum axle rating of 7893# combined, which is over 1000# more than the US GVWR.

They drive similar speeds, as posted above. The Northern Territories have a speed limit of about 80mph, while the remainder of the country has limits at 100-110 km/h, or 62-68 mph. They're more strict about enforcing GVM - meaning they actually enforce it for non-commercial passenger cars. I wonder what the difference is? Perhaps it's a way for the manufacturer to shift liability? If it's a company-level decision, it could be about directing attention toward certain models, i.e. "buy the more expensive F150 rather than the Ranger because of the superior payload" (totally pulling that out of the wild blue, it's based on nothing).

Another interesting note, I've been searching sporadically the last few days about the legality of an overweight passenger car. I cannot find anything that strictly requires a non-commercial passenger vehicle to operate within the GVWR parameters. There may be a more or less strict law depending on the state, but there's nothing in federal code from what I can see.

I did query my insurance agent, as well as a few friends in the insurance business, and the consensus seems to be that it's almost never a factor in insurance claims. Providers don't generally have that listed in their contracts, and they generally don't ask about it in the case of an accident. The only times I've heard of it occurring involved cases of obvious disregard for weight limits, like a half-ton pickup with a full 350-gallon water tank in the bed. Otherwise it's not a factor where I or my friends live (mostly the NW United States).
Interesting stuff. Where did you find this? "Toyota themselves (conservatively) recommend a maximum axle rating of 7893# combined, which is over 1000# more than the US GVWR." I wonder if there are any similar statements on record regarding the 80...
 

jaymar

Member
I trust ARB's a lot more than most....but you'll have to trade damage to your car for more G's through you, airbag or not
All depends on what hits you and how it hits. Did you see that SUV nudged into the path of an oncoming bus in NY the other day? The SUV essentially spins back in the direction it came from. The bus slows down. Extreme example, but still...
 

hoser

Explorer
Interesting stuff. Where did you find this? "Toyota themselves (conservatively) recommend a maximum axle rating of 7893# combined, which is over 1000# more than the US GVWR." I wonder if there are any similar statements on record regarding the 80...
It's on the door jamb data sticker on your US market 80/100.
 
Regarding road fatalities: over the USA in general over a long period of time, per mile driven, 2.3x more probable at night. I am sure there’s multiple reasons.
A little off the subject, but most of this thread concerns RTAs (road traffic accidents).
 

wreckdiver1321

Overlander
Interesting stuff. Where did you find this? "Toyota themselves (conservatively) recommend a maximum axle rating of 7893# combined, which is over 1000# more than the US GVWR." I wonder if there are any similar statements on record regarding the 80...

This was quoted by the Aussie gent over on the ih8mud forum discussion, but as @hoser noted, it should be on the door jamb sticker.
 

jaymar

Member
Regarding road fatalities: over the USA in general over a long period of time, per mile driven, 2.3x more probable at night. I am sure there’s multiple reasons.
A little off the subject, but most of this thread concerns RTAs (road traffic accidents).
I'm guessing the insurance industry and maybe the NHSTA would be good sources for such stats?
 

jaymar

Member
Lots of sources. Factors of 2.3-4.0
The reasons aren’t hard to figure out.
Oh I don't doubt it. Just wonder what other interesting stats may be available. Like 40% of all accidents involving a rear-ending. (Reason enough for front and rear armor.) I remember reading some absolutely insane figure about motorcycle fatalities skyrocketing in the early morning hours. Living in L.A. suburbs, hearing these guys rocket around at night in packs, I believe it...
 

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