Building an Expedition TJ, give me your opinions

[robert j. yates]

Glad you weighed in Robert. I knew you were running an auto and pulling a serious trailer too. :REOutArchery02:

Have you heard from Jason at Airpark Jeep here in Scottsdale? Ref your big rig requirements?

Yea....trailer came in heavy and the 3 speed is not happy LOL. I'm gonna live with it for as long as I can and then decide on a AW4 swap. As for the discussion on overdrives....there is nothing wrong with running a 4.0 at 3000-3500 for any sort of distance with a 3 speed so I doubt that it would have any effect on a TJ with the 4 speed. It might be a little noisy but hey, its a Jeep and with my rig, I can barely hear it over my top flapping anyways. I had 93,000 on my orignal 4.0 before I swapped in the built motor and frankly, the only thing wrong with it is that it was low on power for pulling the Horizon but it came that way stock. It was always a dog.

I'm trading emails with Jason now Don...he came in a bit high for my tastes but we'll see what he does the second time around. The CRD's have a $3500 incentive and left-over 07's should be discounted more than what he proposed IMO. We'll see.

 

[Diesel Joe]

Figure out a way to put a diesel engine in it..... My HZJ-60 land cruiser has a 4.2 liter diesel and a 50 gallon main tank. With the four 5 gallon cans I carry that's 70 gallons of fuel on board. My truck gets almost 30mpg at 60mph. So, that's a 2000 mile range. That opens you up to all kinds of options while traveling around....

The only time youve got to much fuel on board is when youre on fire!!!

 

[MossMan]

Figure out a way to put a diesel engine in it..... My HZJ-60 land cruiser has a 4.2 ilter diesel and a 50 gallon main tank. With the four 5 gallon cans I carry that's 70 gallons of fuel on board. My truck gets almost 30mpg at 60mph. So, that's a 2000 mile range. That opens you up to all kinds of options while traveling around.... Just an idea.

:Wow1: :jumping: That's impressive. If they ever do bring the JK out w/ a diesel option I'll be all over it.

 

[robert j. yates]

If they ever do bring the JK out w/ a diesel option I'll be all over it.

As would I but that aint' gonna happen in the near term which is why I am looking at a Grand CRD.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

Yea....trailer came in heavy and the 3 speed is not happy LOL. I'm gonna live with it for as long as I can and then decide on a AW4 swap. As for the discussion on overdrives....there is nothing wrong with running a 4.0 at 3000-3500 for any sort of distance with a 3 speed so I doubt that it would have any effect on a TJ with the 4 speed. It might be a little noisy but hey, its a Jeep and with my rig, I can barely hear it over my top flapping anyways. I had 93,000 on my orignal 4.0 before I swapped in the built motor and frankly, the only thing wrong with it is that it was low on power for pulling the Horizon but it came that way stock. It was always a dog.

I'm trading emails with Jason now Don...he came in a bit high for my tastes but we'll see what he does the second time around. The CRD's have a $3500 incentive and left-over 07's should be discounted more than what he proposed IMO. We'll see.

Great, tell Jason, I said AZVJC DISCOUNT++ and I said so. :arabia:

 

[OS-Aussie]

mmmmm strange selections with ratios 5.13 with 33's :Wow1:

Don - we will not talk about Moab last year and the pinion in the Dana 60.

I have had an Adventure Trailer and Rubicon since 2003 (stick) and had a few different configurations of tire sizes and ratios.

33's with the stock Rubicon ratios . Worked well but the CA hills did require lots of down shifting and being past by trucks.

*****
Then I moved to 35's with 4.88 and a Kenny Belle Super charger. This was a good setup and allowed me to hold 2 gears higher the friends with Stock Rubicons on hills.

Still not too bad on the highway.

*****
Now I have moved to a 5.7 Hemi with 39.5's and 5.13 gears.

This setup is different on the road depending on which tires I have on, however there is enough power to over take :wings:

My Jeep is heavy 5600 lbs and the trailer has dual 15 gal water tanks and 4 Jerry cans etc etc.


As for a diesel conversion have you looked at a 4BT I have been told that it should match up to your drive line as it is from the same parent company (Dodge).

I agree a JK 4 door with the 3.0 CRD is something to hope for........


But back to the topic.....

The 33's with something like 4.56's should be a good solution as bigger tires create more possible breakage issues. Do you have Dana 44's or smaller ???

 

[Lawrence]

Having recently tested both combos, I think that 33s+4.56s is ok, but 33s+4.88s is much better.

As far as diesel engines are concerned, I think it is pure marketing hype in the US:

According to the window stickers, the V6 JK 4x4 (and V6 GC 4x4) gets 15-19 mpg city/highway and the V6 GC-TD 4x4 gets 17-22 mpg city/highway (so probably would the JK-TD 4x4).

Here are some of the parameters:

I put about 600 miles a week on my vehicle, of which 80% is highway and 20% is city. This would mean 120 city miles and 480 highway miles per week. This is being generous as it is closer to 90-10, but I am factoring more city driving on the weekends with the family.

The V6 3.0 TD engine has a window sticker premium of $1,010. It is safe to assume the same premium would apply to the JK if DC were to stuff it in.

My local gas station sells 87 octane for $3.13/gal, and #2 diesel for $3.39/gal.

All of this means I would consume 33.25 gallons of 87 octane per week with the V6 JK, for a weekly cost of $104.07.

Were I to drive a GC-TD or JK-TD, I would use 28.88 gallons a week of #2 diesel, for a weekly cost of $97.90.

The weekly savings of driving the GC/JK-TD is therefore $6.17. Given my 600 weekly miles, I would have to drive the GC/JK-TD for 98,217.18 miles (or 3.15 years) just to break even. And this is assuming I stuff my $1,010 in a closet and don’t invest it.

Hardly the saving anyone thinks it is. Also, after close to 100K miles I’d be ready to trade in my Jeep, as I’d be tired of it and things would most likely stop working. Sorry, but DC is not known for the best quality.

Now, I know proponents of the TD will chime in with torque figures among other things, but I can’t think of a place where a TD would get me through that a gas engine wouldn't.

Personally, the only way I would consider a diesel Jeep is if DC got their head out of their ******** and built a TD engine that could rival Japanese and European ones, and if oil companies would stop gouging consumers on the price of diesel fuel. That’s my $0.02.

 

[SavageSunJeep]

mmmmm strange selections with ratios 5.13 with 33's :Wow1:

Don - we will not talk about Moab last year and the pinion in the Dana 60.

I have had an Adventure Trailer

WOW, cool, when did you get the trailer?

 

[MossMan]

*****
Now I have moved to a 5.7 Hemi with 39.5's and 5.13 gears.

This setup is different on the road depending on which tires I have on, however there is enough power to over take :wings:

That is a kick ass setup.! :jumping: :26_7_2: :clapsmile :Wow1:

 

[MossMan]

Having recently tested both combos, I think that 33s+4.56s is ok, but 33s+4.88s is much better.

As far as diesel engines are concerned, I think it is pure marketing hype in the US:

According to the window stickers, the V6 JK 4x4 (and V6 GC 4x4) gets 15-19 mpg city/highway and the V6 GC-TD 4x4 gets 17-22 mpg city/highway (so probably would the JK-TD 4x4).

Here are some of the parameters:

I put about 600 miles a week on my vehicle, of which 80% is highway and 20% is city. This would mean 120 city miles and 480 highway miles per week. This is being generous as it is closer to 90-10, but I am factoring more city driving on the weekends with the family.

The V6 3.0 TD engine has a window sticker premium of $1,010. It is safe to assume the same premium would apply to the JK if DC were to stuff it in.

My local gas station sells 87 octane for $3.13/gal, and #2 diesel for $3.39/gal.

All of this means I would consume 33.25 gallons of 87 octane per week with the V6 JK, for a weekly cost of $104.07.

Were I to drive a GC-TD or JK-TD, I would use 28.88 gallons a week of #2 diesel, for a weekly cost of $97.90.

The weekly savings of driving the GC/JK-TD is therefore $6.17. Given my 600 weekly miles, I would have to drive the GC/JK-TD for 98,217.18 miles (or 3.15 years) just to break even. And this is assuming I stuff my $1,010 in a closet and don’t invest it.

Hardly the saving anyone thinks it is. Also, after close to 100K miles I’d be ready to trade in my Jeep, as I’d be tired of it and things would most likely stop working. Sorry, but DC is not known for the best quality.

Now, I know proponents of the TD will chime in with torque figures among other things, but I can’t think of a place where a TD would get me through that a gas engine wouldn't.

Personally, the only way I would consider a diesel Jeep is if DC got their head out of their ******** and built a TD engine that could rival Japanese and European ones, and if oil companies would stop gouging consumers on the price of diesel fuel. That’s my $0.02.

Well said. It's nice to dream about but in reality it's not that big a deal. :shakin:

 

[OS-Aussie]

WOW, cool, when did you get the trailer?

ah, 2003. I had to visit the AT secondary site in NorCal to pick it up.

 

[robert j. yates]

Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4X4 3.0 CRD
215 HP
376 TQ
7200 lb towing capacity
20/24 Official EPA Milage
21.1 gallon tank

Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4X4 Hemi 5.7L
330 HP
375 TQ
7200 lb towing capacity
14/19 Official EPA Milage
21.1 gallon tank

Jeep Unlimited Rubicon 4X4 3.7L
205 HP
240 TQ
3500 lb towing capacity
16/19 Official EPA Milage
21.6 gallon tank

Guess it all depends on what you want to do with your vehicle.

 

[OS-Aussie]

Well said. It's nice to dream about but in reality it's not that big a deal. :shakin:

[start rant]
Same problem with buying a hybrid, check the costs and there is not real drive to do it. But having said that we traded the wife's Escape in on one of the new 08 Escape hybrids and she loves it.

The place I believe a diesel works best is off road under load, the MPG does not plunge to OMG like a gas engine often does. A factory diesel would be the best selection rather than conversion as the closer to stock you can stay the better chance of spares and not suffering breakage. The vehicle of first choice for me when I moved to the states was a Defender 110 Diesel but...... ended up with a gas Rubicon. In honesty if mileage is the primary factor, 4x4s are not the right choice.

The US is different in vehicle choices due to how cheap gas is here. Funny that places with high prices use diesel, down side is they also have less power. Ah, the US and the race for HP and big rims. High HP gas or diesel will do less mileage .... simple - air and fuel = HP

I also believe that the 3.0 CRD from MB is also what is being called the world engine which several other companies in Europe will also use going forward.

I agree that currently pricing from car companies and fuel companies combined with government charges and regulations have created a market that does not support too many options. How many years did Jeep have that fossil 4.0 in line six in their cars. While everyone went high tech on the little 4 bangers the V8's and inline 6's in the US stayed safe due to no pressure to change.
[end rant]

I still love diesel even if only my F250 is the only diesel I currently have.
But it does not suit everyone, great thing about the car market.

Still want a 3.0 CRD JK however

 

[robert j. yates]

The place I believe a diesel works best is off road under load, the MPG does not plunge to OMG like a gas engine often does.

Add the words "on-road" and "travel range" to that quote and we would be in complete agreement. My neighbor has a 5.7L Hemi Grand and he gets nowheres near the milage that Jeep reports the vehicle is capable of unless he drives 65 on the freeway and only then does it creep up into the high teens. Towing for him makes iteven worse. Average driving returns pretty pathetic milage but since he lives rather close to his worksite, he does not mind that much. Thats really his only gripe with his truck...otherwise it has held up remarkably well.

Me...I drive 80 miles day to work and back so I need a fuel efficient vehicle. I also want a vheicle that will ocassionally flat tow my wrangler as well as my Horizon Trailer *AND* still get decent milage doing so. I don't want a truck. That doesn't leave me much choice in SUV's and Jeep is incentiving the heck out of the CRD Grands at the moment so they can be had at a discount if you play your cards right.

I would probably sell my TJ if Jeep did in fact put the 3.0 CRD into the JK but I just don't see it. They are having a heard enough time selling the Grands at the moment.

 

[Lawrence]

Then I moved to 35's with 4.88 and a Kenny Belle Super charger. This was a good setup and allowed me to hold 2 gears higher the friends with Stock Rubicons on hills.

Still not too bad on the highway.

Back on topic... I forgot to ask, did you run this setup for a while prior to the KB install? If so, can you give me your impressions? Then, if you could let me know what the KB did/didn't improve. I know you have a stick, but I wouldn't mind hearing about it. Thanks.