Building custom soft top for the LJ

squint

Adventurer
Yep! A mahindra. I have always liked the look of those. Thanks for posting Jeff. I had never seen that one before, but it is very close to the same look. Having squared windshield/doors would simplify the making of the top for sure as there is no angle to contend with.
 
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jet noise

Observer
Squint, I'd like to just add my praise for your work on the top. I've got 22 years of experience fabricating all kinds of soft goods for the USAF, and I don't think I could have done a better job than you did on the canvas. The fact that you just picked up the skill of soft goods fabrication is very impressive! Those are some straight, professional looking seams from what I can see. Enjoy the attention you'll get from having this top, you have most definitely earned it! Btw what kind of thread did you use?
 

squint

Adventurer
Squint, I'd like to just add my praise for your work on the top. I've got 22 years of experience fabricating all kinds of soft goods for the USAF, and I don't think I could have done a better job than you did on the canvas. The fact that you just picked up the skill of soft goods fabrication is very impressive! Those are some straight, professional looking seams from what I can see. Enjoy the attention you'll get from having this top, you have most definitely earned it! Btw what kind of thread did you use?

Thanks so much- that is a huge compliment coming from a pro! I am sure you could find “ugly” spots upon close inspection. Those were mostly hidden on the inside and had to do with the thickness of the materials that were sandwiched together which were essential in keeping the front cover from stretching at the B pillar. Although I spent a decent amount on the machine (and it is a nice little machine for canvas at home), I feel that is was only marginally up to the task, especially in those areas. Changing the bobbin constantly and fixing issue after issue, with burrs on the shuttle hook and/or retaining ring along with tensioning, kept me on my toes. I did a great deal of studying before I took over the sewing since I did not want to have to start over. I guess being overly prepared and experimenting worked to my advantage, but time consuming.

For the thread, A V92 Polyester was used, which (as I am sure you know), is standard in the marine industry because of its water and UV resistance.
I would like to experiment with Tenara thread next time, which is guaranteed for life. I didn't trust myself using it on the first go around since it requires more expertise than the Polyester. What would you have used? Do you have any tips that come to mind that might be beneficial on the next go around?
 

jet noise

Observer
That V 92 looks like a good choice. We mostly use nylon threads for the stuff we do, but I doubt it would be any better. I did score a spool of Kevlar Size E thread once, and that stuff was amazing. But, it was hard to cut. Here's a link you might find useful for materials and supplies on your next go round, we use this site a lot. They have a great selection of webbing, tape, etc but not necessarily the best prices: http://http://www.paragear.com/templates/parachutes.asp?group=33&level=2&parent=193
Burs in your shuttle hook indicate the needle might be striking the hook during its revolution, so you should be able to adjust the distance from the hook to the needle scarf when the needle begins its upstroke. The gap between the two should just be very slight. Also, I'm sure you know it by now, the long groove on the needle should go to the left on most machines. It will sew the other way around, but not well. I'm not familiar with your machine, but they are all pretty much the same. If you have any more problems with your machines operation, I'd be happy to help any way I can!
One last thing, is your machine a home use machine or an industrial type? From the problems you mention associated with the layers around the door surround, you might want to invest in a "mid-weight" industrial. Something about the size of a Consew 206 RB. As for the Tenara thread, I'm not understanding the expertise required. I haven't used that thread, but all thread settings are the same. You want the stitches to land right between the layers you are sewing together. If your knots are on top, your needle thread tension is too great or your bobbin thread tension is too loose. Vice versa if your knots are on the bottom as you sew.
I hope what I've said here makes sense and is helpful. Again, very nice work! I just happened to see this thread today and had to comment on it.
 
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squint

Adventurer
The needle definitely was stressed a few times towards the beginning of the project around turns, etc which most likely caused the burrs (a rookie mistake for sure). At one point, As you mentioned, I also had the scarf on the wrong side and it took me days to finally realize it (lots of broken thread). The machine I used is portable, but definitely industrial and weighs close to 50 lbs with the upgraded flywheel. A full sized table with a built in machine is really needed for larger projects such as this, instead of hunching over a machine plopped on top of a coffee table. :sombrero:Thanks for the link- I will have to look it through. The plastic area was fairly easy to sew through on the door surround. Where it really became difficult was at the bow that connects the B pillar since the fabric layers (along with some other materials which I cannot mention yet) became so thick that It really did not want to function right. I could have used a machine that had more room between the presser foot and the feed dog... Anyway, I certainly enjoyed the learning process and I have a great respect for the ingenious way the machine works and those who understand it intimately. I appreciate the pointers and will PM you if I run into any interesting issues.
 

squint

Adventurer
Thanks again for all the great comments and interest. I had an absolute blast thinking this whole thing through and putting it into actual form.

A number of you have expressed interest in this top, so a “waiting list” is warranted at this time, both to judge how many would initially need to be produced and how much actual interest there is, which would make this top a viable product. This does not mean taking deposits, only that you have a place in line and if/when production begins, you will be given the option to pay at that time and be one of the first to receive your top.
This is nothing contractual, just an “I am interested” list. For early adopters, they would most likely be chosen from this list based on certain criteria to be determined at a later date.

So if you are interested, please PM or email me with the following and I will add you to "the list".

My email is gdon AT cox DOT net

-Full name

-Email

-Phone number (optional)

-Jeep year and model (TJs will be considered if I there is enough interest)

-Color desired.

Any comments welcome





Thanks again for your support. :safari-rig: :)
 
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squint

Adventurer
The CJ8 and 6 are definitely favorites of mine and one of the reasons I bought my LJ to begin with. Lets see how this goes and perhaps we can make it happen in the future.
 

squint

Adventurer
Still working on it:ylsmoke:
I have taken quite a few steps forward...
Enjoying driving it around now that the heat is finally waning...
9689E691-E77D-415A-BB5D-EADC7CEC67C8-884-0000009FB21166C7.jpg
 
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jeepdreamer

Expedition Leader
Hey Squint... Happy New Year!!!
I just had a weird idea that made me think of your build so I thought I'd throw this idea at you. I have a brand new full soft top for my Scrambler. Its the Kayline snap version that I don't care much for but it came with the Jeep. How difficult do you think it would be to build a frame for the Jeep and have the top converted to a channel style mount? Doable or nuts??
Also... hows your top coming??? :)
 

squint

Adventurer
Hey Squint... Happy New Year!!!
I just had a weird idea that made me think of your build so I thought I'd throw this idea at you. I have a brand new full soft top for my Scrambler. Its the Kayline snap version that I don't care much for but it came with the Jeep. How difficult do you think it would be to build a frame for the Jeep and have the top converted to a channel style mount? Doable or nuts??
Also... hows your top coming??? :)
Howdy Dreamer and happy new year! (Sorry, I didn't see this post earlier.) When you say channel style, you are talking about converting the CJ-8 so that it will accept the same plastic belting where the soft top meets the tub into that channel, correct? So gathering from what you said above, there must be snaps along either the side or top edge of your vehicle.. Do you have a pic that you can post of how the soft top normally mounts? If these are to be made for the CJ, I will most certainly have to tackle this obstacle anyway...
 

squint

Adventurer
I will also answer the other question as well- :snorkel:

Things are coming along well. The preproduction process has started and there is a patent pending. Some improvements are being made on the hardware right now and for the soft portion, the list of improvements is extensive. These range from enhancing reproduction costs all the way down to small things like changing fasteners or the type of zippers used. It is a monumental project, but having the original and armed with the knowledge that it is a sound design after testing it has lent confidence for success.

Charging forward with a TJ version was top on my list, however I realized I was putting the cart before the horse. The lady really wants one too, but since the design is not production ready it makes more sense to focus efforts on the preproduction prototype first for the LJ which can be reproduced and sold at (hopefully) a pallatable price.
Once finished, it would make little business sense to produce these solely for the LJs since the TJ market is about 15 times larger, hence once a reproduceable version of the LJ is ready, the TJ should be close behind.

A note on the windows:
I love the rear window design too and it functions well along with the rear view mirror under regular driving conditions, however, backing the jeep up with the full top on is another story. The small windows do not allow visibilty well enough and I have found myself using the side mirrors when backing out of parking spaces. I plan to extend those down to match the level of the side windows. This would be a compromise between keeping the vintage look and still having some lower/rear visibility. A recent mockup was done and it looked great. While we are on the windows subject, the side windows give far better visibility than the OEM top.

The noise on the road is about the same as my sailcloth OEM top, which is fairly quiet-a slight fluttering, but not bad at all for a soft top so I am pleased with that aspect. I may have mentioned some of this before but I had an original OEM top (it came with the Jeep)and it was very rugged material so I used the same thing. Unfortunately, the rest of the top (the hardware) fell apart. I have a friend who has the aftermarket replacement top (made by the OEM manufacturer), which is supposedly exactly the same, and it ripped after less than a year, flaps heavily in the wind and the stitching is falling apart. I believe the original tops were $1650 and the replacements are less expensive. It appears that they moved their manufacturing to Mexico and China in 2009 so that could be the real reason the replacements fall apart, but I can tell you for sure that the replacement material on my friend's top is not the same tough material from my original OEM top. The price of the more rugged soft top material is quite expensive so folks who are used to buying really cheap stuff from other manufacturers may be a bit disappointed on the price ultimately, but you get what you pay for (they also are cheap because of chinese labor and thin aluminum and plastic hardware, which this top will not have). That actually made me think back then; what if someone built a top with that same tough material and had hardware that never needed to be replaced? The other thing I disliked about the original top was zippers that go around right angles which make it so hard to zip on during the winter months. This new top addresses all of those issues.

I guess I also need to clear up a misnomer while I am on the subject of "sailcloth". Sailcloth is not really a certain type of material, it is just the pattern or style that is imprinted on the material. Anyone can say they use sailcloth but it may not be the same material as the original OEM soft tops that came with jeeps in the mid 2000's.
 

jscusmcvet

Explorer
Thanks for the update Greg! I agree with your thoughts on the different types of material. My son has a replacement, aftermarket top on his 2000 TJ and it is nowhere near the OEM top as far as durability, etc...

AND...

I am so with you on the zippers. This is my primary, #1 reason for wanting a new top. I have never been able to keep the rear window zipper, on any top I have had, operating correctly. You know the deal... It may be too stiff due to cold, it may not be lined up just right, and I force things and pop... zipper is jacked. I am working on a temporary fix while I wait for your top. If and when you have price ideas and availability dates, please let me know, so I can be prepared (read this as... prepare my wife that I am dropping the cash!)

Regardless, good luck with your business venture.

John
 

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