Built in Radio GPS for Navigation Use?

[OIIIIO]

This is my first post...and I should note that I am newb when it comes to ham. Current have a tech license.

I am considering my first dual-band mobile radio purchase. I would like to have APRS. There are several radios on the market with built in GPS, such as the Yaesu and Kenwood radios that, I believe make APRS fairly easy.

At the same time, I want to set up my navigation solution in my rig. Therefore, my question is this:

Can you use these radios' (400XD or V710G) GPS output for use in a tablet for navigation?

That is, can I use the GPS output signals for Backcountry Navigation, for example?

My hope is to setup my radio, APRS, and navigation using as few items as possible.

Thoughts?

KG7ZZK

 

[Airmapper]

I have the Kenwood D710G, it will output NMEA GPS feed. Go to Page 19 here: http://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/pdf/TM-D710A_E_GA_GE_IDM.pdf

It also has a data out port, and that could be rigged to provide APRS data packet feed into a tablet or PC program. One day I'll figure that out since it would be cool to have live RF APRS data on a moving map.

But as far as the radio's GPS unit being used for navigation feed to a PC, given the custom cables involved, I'm sure you would be time and money ahead just getting a USB or Bluetooth GPS receiver and have it be plug and play, with no extra cables and adapters to fight with. Your looking at a very involved techie nerd kind of project just to accomplish a $20 task. It's a sad situation, but most HAM tech was new and exciting in the 1980's, maybe the 90's if I'm generous. It would be the technological equivalent of rigging your smartphone to let you make calls with a rotary phone.

 

[Frdmskr]

Hands down the TMD710ga make sure it's a newest GA as they have an internal GPS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robgendreau]

Perhaps a better question is: how do I use a dedicated GPS for both my FM-APRS and nav on my tablet? I say that cuz in a vehicle having a GPS with good reception (on the dash, with a roof mount antenna, etc) can be nice. Since the HT would have to be accessible by hand I'd think it wouldn't be the best GPS solution. And I doubt it is more than a 1Hz unit, which is fine, but not ideal for fast moving nav.

 

[OIIIIO]

Perhaps a better question is: how do I use a dedicated GPS for both my FM-APRS and nav on my tablet? I say that cuz in a vehicle having a GPS with good reception (on the dash, with a roof mount antenna, etc) can be nice. Since the HT would have to be accessible by hand I'd think it wouldn't be the best GPS solution. And I doubt it is more than a 1Hz unit, which is fine, but not ideal for fast moving nav.

I do have an old Garmin eTrex that would make for a good dedicated GPS receiver.

So if I am understanding the comments here...even with the 710, there would be special cables involved, and the in-radio GPS units are "slower", making navigation less useful?

 

[theksmith]

in general, i don't think there's any point in trying to use the ham's GPS output for navigation on an Android or Apple tablet. many tablets come with integrated GPS receivers that work just fine for general trail nav when mounted inside the cab. in fact, i would make sure to purchase a tablet with one. even if you already have a tablet without a GPS chip, i think it would be much simpler to just use the proven approach of an external bluetooth GPS. Bad-Elf and DualAv both make excellent external GPS units proven to work reliably with Android and Apple devices (and for Android there are many less expensive BT units that will work fine too).

however, if you are planning to connect to a PC (Windows) type tablet or laptop that does not have integrated GPS, then exploring the cabling and drivers necessary to get your ham's GPS output into the PC might be worth the effort in order to avoid needing a separate bluetooth or USB GPS device.

EDIT - i re-read your first post and see that you are trying to figure out an approach. i used the setup mentioned by someone else here already, a kenwood radio without a built-in GPS, a mobilinkd bluetooth TNC, and a tablet with integrated GPS. see here for details: https://theksmith.com/hardware/wiring-mobilinkd-tnc-automatic-on-off-mod-jeep-tablet-based-aprs/ - however buying a newer radio with built-in GPS/APRS and a tablet with separate integrated GPS would be the simplest approach (even though you're paying for 2 devices to have GPS in them).

 

[aearles]

What OS/navigation software are you planning to run on the tablet?

I have a D710GA in my truck and have been planning to experiment with this anyway, if it stops raining I will go out and connect my laptop to the data port and experiment with the NMEA output and see what I can come up with.

As Crom mentioned, I believe it can do GPS out and WAYPOINT out, I'm hoping that it can do both simultaneously but I'm not really familiar with NMEA sentence structure. If it works with the data port, you'd only need about $15 in cables (knock-off serial data cable, and usb adapter) from Amazon to make it work.

 

[aearles]

Okay, I've failed, but I did learn a few things. The way my head unit is mounted, I cannot normally access the COM port, which is used for NMEA output. Apparently the head unit does not send any of the GPS/TNC/APRS data back to the RF deck, it's all handled internally. This means it would be a lot easier to experiment with if I came up with a way to power the head unit inside my office instead of taking the laptop out to the truck.

There are three serial ports between the RF deck and head unit:

"For packet using the internal TNC, you will plug the PG-5G cable into the port on the back of the CONTROL HEAD. You DO NOT use the “PC” or “DATA” ports on the RF deck.

Before you ask…. The “PC” port is for programming the radio. The “DATA” port is for an external TNC."

Source: https://kypn.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/using-outpost-with-the-kenwood-tm-d710/

I also learned that the 3.5mm GPS port on the left side of the head unit supports both input and output, so you may be able to fab a cable, but it's going to look silly sticking out of the side of the head unit full time, don't know why they would have done that...

I get the impression from the menus, that WAYPOINT output is handled via the COM port, and GPS output is handled via the 3.5mm GPS port, but I'd like to confirm that GPS location isn't also sent out the COM port.

I was able to make a connection to the COM port, but my NMEA logger was just logging gibberish. I launched Google Earth and started real-time tracking, it successfully locked onto the appropriate COM port, and then the prolific serial-usb driver that I'm using caused the PC to blue screen.I think I need to mess with the DATUM option on APRS menu 500, but I'm not sure.

I've given up for now, but I'll try to find a way to power the HU in my office so I can comfortably spend some more time on it.

 

[Jeep2.0]

<Old thread alert>

Old Jeeper, new ham. Want APRS also, with Kenwood tm-D710GA in the LJ. Want APRS displayed on Android tablet using APRSDroid. I've read & read all afternoon but can't find out how to connect the serial data out of the Kenwood D710GA to the Android tablet.

I've got the Kenwood pinout on P47 of the manual using the side 2.5mm jack. I also found the pinouts of the Kenwood data ports here

But all those are serial, and me thinks I need a USB input to the Tablet. Is there a Tablet with a serial input that I can't find?

Appreciate any help you can provide.

 

[Airmapper]

<Old thread alert>

Old Jeeper, new ham. Want APRS also, with Kenwood tm-D710GA in the LJ. Want APRS displayed on Android tablet using APRSDroid. I've read & read all afternoon but can't find out how to connect the serial data out of the Kenwood D710GA to the Android tablet.

I've got the Kenwood pinout on P47 of the manual using the side 2.5mm jack. I also found the pinouts of the Kenwood data ports here

But all those are serial, and me thinks I need a USB input to the Tablet. Is there a Tablet with a serial input that I can't find?

Appreciate any help you can provide.

Here is somewhere to start: http://www.mobilinkd.com/

 

[Jeep2.0]

Thanks. That's a pretty slick solution for an HT, with the battery power. One cable hookup is nice.

Now what I need is a one cable serial to USB solution to get the D710GA to the Android tablet. (Does APRSDroid accept GPS input through the USB port?)

 

[snare]

One cable from D710GA to the MobilinkD TNC 2.2, that bluetooths to the android tablet right into aprsdroid.

The MobilinkD can also bluetooth to any pc that has bluetooth (of course) and an APRS program that uses KISS protocol.

 

[Jeep2.0]

Thanks for the info. From what I can tell, this is optimized for HT use, not for vehicle use - am I seeing that correctly? I would love a 12v input, no on-board battery (or GPS) required. May have to build my own.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Now what I need is a one cable serial to USB solution to get the D710GA to the Android tablet. (Does APRSDroid accept GPS input through the USB port?)

As it happens I'm shopping for an Android tablet to use for navigation and APRS. From what I can tell (and please someone correct me) that yes, APRSdroid can accept a serial input from an OTG USB device. In my case I'm looking to verify that I can use one of my several existing TNCs rather than needing to buy another like Mobilinkd and I'd rather not use Bluetooth either way.

https://yt7fms.wordpress.com/2015/12/29/aprsdroid-microaprs/

So my follow-on question to the group would be what tablet is preferred for this? Are there any non-industrial tablets that happen to have a serial point? That would be ideal IMO. Panasonic sells a 10" Toughpad that you can accept a real RS232 port, if you want to spend $1500 for it, which I don't.

I'd want to run Gaia/Backcountry Navigator and APRSdroid (or perhaps Xastir, which has been hacked to run on rooted Android and I'm familiar with Xastir). I don't necessarily care deeply about navigation & APRS integration, but I do want full APRS capability.

Being able to share maps between Xastir and whatever navigation/locating apps I have would be nice, however Avenza and GEOPDFs already mean I wouldn't necessarily be able to converge all tasks anyway. Perhaps it would be nice to have a navigation app (and I'm assuming BCN for the moment) be able to see APRS locations as waypoints but that's really the only cross over functionality I feel would be truly necessary.

Being able to navigate to an APRS station (such as your mates in camp), for example. I don't think messaging from within BCN would really be a critical function as long as I can run APRSdroid/Xastir/etc.

 

[Jeep2.0]

DaveInDenver -I'm far from an expert here but have been doing a lot of research, off & on. From what I can tell from the APRSDroid website & knowledgebase, the serial input compatibility is not guaranteed. Allegedly it varies from tablet manufacturer to tablet manufacturer. Bluetooth serial connectivity IS guaranteed, however, so that's the direction I'm going. Something like this.

I'm no Android fan, so bought an Android tablet just for this. Tried to find the right combination of not-too-big size & cost. Wound up with a Samsung Galaxy Tab A 7.0, and added an SD card to download all the maps. Got an almost-new one off eBay for just $50. So far, it's running both APRSDroid and GAIA just fine, although I haven't downloaded all the maps & gone 'wheeling with it.

Once I either cave & buy the MobilekinD or complete my breadboard prototype of my circuit, I can test the serial-to-bluetooth connectivity & let you know how that goes. Might be a while for that -work has been busy.