but what about an FJ...

[Blind_Io]

I cross shopped the JK, FJ, and XTerra when I was looking for a vehicle and decided on the XTerra.

I really wanted to love the FJ; I have been infatuated with the FJ40 since I was a kid and the vehicle I learned to drive off road in was an FJ80. There were just too many issues with the design for me to make it my top pick. Rather than another lengthy explanation...

• Visibility. Overall visibility out of the FJ is, at best, very limited. In town the forward roof line makes it impossible for a tall guy like me to see the traffic lights, the blind spot is massive, and rearward visibility is like looking through a mail slot. The impression I had was of driving a machine gun bunker.
• Limited power train options. If you want the manual transmission you have to have the full-time 4WD system, likewise, if you want to the automatic you can only get the part time system. I wanted a manual with a traditional part time system - not really a deal breaker, but a strike against the Toyota.
• Body rips. The FJ has long had a problem with the sheet metal in the engine bay deforming and even ripping, indicating significant chassis problems or body mounting problems.
• Wonky ABS. There are more than a few reports of FJs in a turn hitting a bump, confusing the ABS which goes into full-panic-freakout mode. The ABS then intervenes and you have limited to no braking for anywhere from a moment to ten seconds while the system figures out the wheels are spinning.
• Vibration. At highway speeds the FJ is prone to vibration. Suspension modifications may fix this, but it should not be a problem on a new vehicle.
• Limited access. The rear seat access on the FJ is narrow, can only be used if the front door is open, and results in a very close and claustrophobic riding experience for any passengers.
• Windscreen. The upright windscreen is very prone to damage and cracking, combined with the body rips and many accounts of spontaneous windscreen cracks (not due to impact), it again makes me worry about chassis and body mounting issues.

I did consider the Jeep, but at the time I found the JKU to be very expensive on the used market and I was wary about buying into Chrysler, as they were a failing company with no indication of a bailout. I also have had very bad luck in the past with Jeep reliability - that being said, the JK series is a whole new animal and my experiences with my 2001 can't be compared to vehicles built over a decade later.

If the FJ is on the list of potential vehicles, I encourage you to cross-shop with the XTerra Pro-4X. Even if you have experience with the Generation 1 XTerra, it is worth a look. The 2005+ models are completely different than the old Gen1. The chassis, suspension, engine, everything is different; having driven both and owned the Gen2 they are like night and day.

 

[Hound]

Body rips sound pretty awful. This is the first I have heard of that. I appreciate the info.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Body rips sound pretty awful. This is the first I have heard of that. I appreciate the info.

with a little bit of research, it seems that the trucks that are doing this are jumped hard or rock crawled hard.

 

[Blind_Io]

There ha e been cases of body rips occurring on pavement queen FJs. Even if this was not the case it is still troubling. I have wheeled my XTerra pretty hard, even jumped it at freeway speeds and never bent, broken, or ripped anything.

 

[toylandcruiser]

There ha e been cases of body rips occurring on pavement queen FJs. Even if this was not the case it is still troubling. I have wheeled my XTerra pretty hard, even jumped it at freeway speeds and never bent, broken, or ripped anything.

after reading over 100 pages of over 300 on the subject on the post on the fj cruiser site, granted it as late and i was tired. Vast majority of the people complaining about it wheel it hard. They also have ARB bumpers on them.

 

[Hound]

I went back and tried to school myself on this body rip issue. While I was not willing to read every page of the thread, I was not able to determine of Toyota ever rectified the problem on later MY FJCs. Anyone know if the newer FJs are still ripping?

 

[upcruiser]

Here is a thread with my ponderings of the FJ and experiences thus far. Call me a skeptic at first but it has won me over.... http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/114608-The-Fake-Jeep-Not-a-Real-Cruiser-Thread/page13

In short, the FJC is a great rig and highly versatile. I have been a long time Land Cruiser guy and those are my gold standard. I also dabble in Rovers, and have spent a bit of time in Jeeps from stock TJ's to fully kitted AEV rigs. I am not a diehard purist of any particular brand and I can appreciate the attributes of any given brand. I admit I wasn't a big fan of the FJ prior to us getting ours. We ended up buying ours in haste as we were in a bit of a pinch having a newborn, and a move from Jackson Hole to Vail all within 5 days and an ailing FJ60 that we were counting on for the move. What we ended up with is a faithful family adventure mobile that does everything pretty well.

First off lets address capability... The FJC is an incredibly capable rig bone stock. Comparing the FJC to the gold standard the Rubicon JK stock to stock, you will find it can handle 90-95% of the technical terrain the Jeep can. IFS means it handles differently than for us used to live axles. What it lacks in the ability to keep all 4 tires on the ground (pretty much the case with all IFS 4wd's) it makes up for with Atrac. Atrac works great, in fact for most of our adventures it was my go to setting. You can stick it on and not worry about having to engage a diff lock or not and tight turning scenarios. On rock and loose gravel surfaces, I found Atrac to work better than just using the rear diff lock. On the post 2010 FJC's the Atrac AND the rear diff lock can be used in conjunction and it works extremely well, most say practically negating the need for a front diff lock. On the pre 2010's you can use one or the other but not both, though there is a hack available to address that. I don't have the hack on my 2007 and haven't really felt the need for it. The big difference I find between the FJC and the JK is comfort. The JK is less comfortable and more creaky. The revised interiors after 2011 in the JK's went a long way to addressing that but still the FJC is hands down a better place to spend a day in. Visibility-wise, neither is great, but I find the JK to be easier to stick your head out the window and spot yourself in more technical terrain. The FJC's windows are a touch low and it is awkward for me to lean out and see I find.

Interior wise the FJ feels much more spacious for the front seat occupants, due to the roof being high. The Wrangler is a bit more cramped feeling. While I don't find the FJ's blindspot issue to be that big of a deal, compared to a Land Cruiser, I do miss the ability to see out and above me more. The sight seeing is a bit limited by the visibility up, which I find to be more of an issue than out or down. The FJ feels drum tight inside. Like the Wrangler, its an easy interior to clean out with FJ's having rubber floors. That is huge to me. I always hated spending hours cleaning the interior out on my Land Cruisers after a big trip or getting mud tracked into the carpeting.

The FJ has a 105" wheelbase which is a nice compromise I feel. It is short enough to make tight turns doable but long enough to be stable on steep climbs and descents. For reference, the JK has 100" wheelbase and the JKU has 110". The FJC has almost identical interior volume as the JKU though. My wife, our toddler, and our small dog, can go on an extended trip in our FJ including our mountain bikes and all the gear to live pretty nicely. We have a Baja Rack that we utilize for a RTT, spare fuel 10 gallons, and a storage box. Everything else packs behind the rear seats (we leave the back seats up for the kiddo and the dog. So, I guess I don't get the comments about space being an issue, its more of a matter of packing better. Again, we have full recovery, first aid, a PETT toilette, shower enclosure, lower changing room for the RTT, cooler, stove, water, duffels with bike gear, and clothes for 3 people and all of our food. While not long in the back the interior in an FJ is quite tall. You can put alot in them.

I gravitate towards vehicles that perform well and are durable as stock as possible. Our FJ is mechanically stock, just has aftermarket bumpers and a big heavy winch. For overlanding, the biggest drawback to the FJC to me is the smallish fuel capacity (we address this by packing 10 gallons on the roof) and the lame factory spring rates. A set of OME springs tailored to your weight needs is key IMHO. A small 2.5" lift and 33's will get you most anywhere you want to go and it will still ride nice, and perform well on the pavement where most overlanders spend 90% of their time.

If you are looking just to go "wheeling", a Wrangler TJ would be a great choice for size, buy in price and aftermarket. JK's as well, but not sure they offer more if trail riding is your main priority for the vehicle. For a vehicle that you are traveling in and exploring the back country, the Jeeps don't do it for me. Thats my 2 cents from my experience.

Regarding the fender apron tears, I personally don't know anyone that has had the issue. We have used ours pretty hard (and its an '07) and have a Warn bumper with the Warn Powerplant up front. No issues whatsoever. Its easy to inspect on an FJ if you are shopping. I think its a pretty small number of folks that have had it happen and I really can't imagine what they did to cause it. The chasis on the FJ is really tight feeling and we get zero creaking or groaning when twisting it up and rock crawling.

 

[BigSwede]

I don't know anything about 'fender apron tears', first I've heard about it. But I've been keeping an eye on FJ build threads and such with an eye toward a possible future purchase.
Having said that, how can body parts be tearing if the FJ is a body-on-frame vehicle? Doesn't that mean the frame has to be bending too?

 

[Blind_Io]

I agree that the FJ is a very capable rig out of the box - as are the XTerra Pro-4X and the JKU Rubicon. Each vehicle has its relative strengths and weaknesses, it is just a matter of finding the right fit for you as a driver/owner and for what you want to do.

For me, the FJ sacrifices too much function for form. The funky retro styling results in visibility problems - the jutting roof line, the high shoulder line, and the large blind spot make daily driving in town dicey (especially squeezing into parallel parking spots) and requires the use of a spotter in situations where I would not need one in the Jeep or XTerra. The other thing with visibility is that I am going to be traveling through some of the most beautiful country in North America and I would like to be able to see it as if I wasn't looking out of a mail slot.

The mechanical issues with the FJ are pretty well documented. We can go back and forth on whether or not body rips are caused by too heavy a bumper, jumping, or "hard wheeling." The fact is that this is not even a debate when it comes to other comparable vehicles. I follow the XTerra forums pretty closely and I have not seen a single report of tearing body work that wasn't the result of a crash. I'd bet that you could say the same for the JKU.

That being said, I went into my vehicle research biased towards the Toyota for their legendary build quality, the fact that I wanted a 'Cruiser, and coming off a great experience with an FJ80. I bought a Nissan. That is nothing against the capability of the FJC, it is a very capable vehicle right out of the box, but there were several niggling problems and some pretty serious structural concerns that crossed it off my list.

 

[upcruiser]

XTerra's are great vehicles but have their own issues too. Any vehicle does, with the a terra it's the pink milkshake of death. I don't think anyone is going to make much of an arguement for either an FJC or an Xterra being attractive vehicles either. What vehicle doesn't feel contrived anymore? The Wrangler is all about looking retro, and how many Jeep badges logos can you count from the drivers seat? On an. Xterra how much plastic body protection cladding do you need to look tough? How about the faux Discovery raised roof? Cheesy roof bars? Unfortunately that's the nature of modern cars and stylists impression of what looks tough.

Thankfully underneath the styling of all 3 are pretty solid underpinnings.

Back to the body apron tears in an FJC, it's the in we fenders all and the reason most folks haven't heard about it is that it is pretty rare. There seems to be no conclusion clearly to what caused it but plenty of people use their vehicles bard with no sign of it.

 

[Blind_Io]

The SMOD (Strawberry Milkshake Of Death) issue was fixed on later models, post 2010 I think. It also only affected automatics (mine is a manual), and there is a quick free fix for the problem. All you have to do is switch two hoses on the radiator and you have zero risk for SMOD.

Other known issues on earlier XTerras:

• Timing chain tensioner failure. Fixed the same time the radiator was updated to prevent SMOD. I had to have mine repaired and the old part was replaced with an updated one won't fail prematurely. Later models were built with the updated part from the factory.
• Fuel sending unit failure. Mine went out just after I bought it, I had it replaced at a private shop and have had no problems since. Nissan later paid me back for the repair.
• Not a failure, but limited upward travel on the rear suspension. Most of us change our suspensions anyway, but it results in easy bottoming on stock rigs.

The XTerra is not perfect by any means, but Nissan has done a pretty good job addressing known problems on the production line. It is one of the advantages of such production cycle for this generation.

 

[Arktikos]

after reading over 100 pages of over 300 on the subject on the post on the fj cruiser site, granted it as late and i was tired. Vast majority of the people complaining about it wheel it hard. They also have ARB bumpers on them.

480 positive responses, largest percentage in the categories listed had stock trucks. http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/problems-dealer-service/33440-engine-bay-body-rips-2.html

 

[toylandcruiser]

480 positive responses, largest percentage in the categories listed had stock trucks. http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/problems-dealer-service/33440-engine-bay-body-rips-2.html

polls don't mean anything, people can vote how they want , did you actually go and read the responses? I read a lot of them. there really wasn't a lot of common between them. Im pretty sure i read somewhere that this was an issue with the first year or so. Like said above, i know a lot of people that have fjs and wheel them with no issue. So who knows. Maybe its like the raptor crowd having issues with with bent frames. Some say its hard driving, some say its not.

 

[kerouac]

I come from a background of owning a Westfalia. This gave me an appreciation for "reliable" brands. I really don't think you can get better than Toyota reliability when it comes to stock offroad vehicles.

In regards to the body tear issue, although rare considering the amount of vehicles sold compared to the amount of issues reported, this was in fact an occurrence. You want to look for a build date of later than Aug 2007 as the issue was corrected after this date.

To be fair I don't own this vehicle yet but am continuously considering it for a year long trip we are hoping to do. We are coming from a Westfalia (awesome layout, love the quirkiness but hated the maintenance) and an F150 pulling a small 5th wheel. We will keep the truck and trailer but want a secondary rig with off road capability for this adventure. To this end we have test driven several FJ's and when the right one comes along we will make the purchase. Here are some things we have learned...

We have tested laying down in the back for sleeping room.....no issues, (but I like my wife ) I'm 5'11. Plus you could always use an RTT.

On road manners are great!!

Blind spots....got used to them within a few minutes of test drives so not really an issue.

I feel fuel mileage is right on target with other vehicles in this category however one thing to be aware of is fuel mileage being affected by the thermostat. If you do purchase an FJ and start to think 'hey, I think my fuel mileage should be better' a common fix is replacing the thermostat.

Lastly...I just really like the FJ. Have always thought it was a cool and neat vehicle since the day the concept was revealed. I think that also plays into a buying decision. We probably could do our planned trip in a Subaru but at the end of the day I know when we finally find our FJ we will just 'like it' and enjoy driving it to wherever we go and whatever we do.

 

[BigSwede]

People who complain about "blind spots" don't know how to use their mirrors. Try driving a school bus and you'll get the idea