Camper modification question

[kerry]

I own a Mitsubishi FG with a service body. I have leveled out the area above the wheel wells which intrude into the body. I have a 54" wide bed into which I want to install a used pop up camper. I want a bath and shower in the camper which appears to require about a 10' camper. I looked at a 10' Texson today.
Here's the problem: The slide in portion is about 48" wide almost everywhere, except for the area behind the right wheel well. This is the location of the bath/shower and there is a jut in the slide in portion at this point that fills the pickup bed behind the right wheel well. It appears that this is there to accommodate the shower pan and shower.
Here's my question: What are the implications of cutting off this section and rebuilding the area at 48 or 52"? I realize I will have to fiberglass a new corner on the shower pan and I will have an indentation in the rectangular bath/shower. But are there any structural implications in making this modification? I could take a sawzall to the existing section and rebuild the walls in that area.
From looking around inside the vanity, it looks to be just plywood in that area.
I imagine I will face this problem with many campers with a shower since they'll be utilizing this space behind the wheel well to accommodate the bath/shower.
Anybody else done this? Any thoughts out there? Anybody know if there are any pop up camper that don't use the area behind the wheel well to accommodate the bath?

 

[mog]

Just my 2 cent (and biased, since this is what I plan with mine)

It seems all the pre-built campers and most homebuilt campers give up a huge amount of the ‘living space’ to cabinets, not only giving you less floor space, but also giving you a closed in feeling.
One of the huge advantages of a service body is all of the outside storage, freeing up the interior if you like.
The plan with mine is to built the interior more like a corporate jet (my ‘regular job’), leaving the interior as open as possible for the wide open feel, without the need for a large camper. I also plan on installing anything such as seats, low cabinets (no overhead), kitchen and lav modules with a floor track systems, so they can be removed easily to use the interior for different configurations. This also isolates the interior from some of the twisting action off-road, minimizing the related problems, (no need to float the whole body on a 3 or 4 point mounting system since the service bodies are pretty ridged to start with).
I think you have the perfect starting point (add green with envy at this point). What about just having a top or cap built for your bed without any interior attached. It would be much cheaper, then a pre-built camper, and would fit perfectly. You could even have it removable, if you every wanted to used the truck without it. Then add the interior in sections or modules as your design matures, without having to cut up and change some other camper design that was someone else’s idea of ‘perfect’ for a different vehicle and differnet size.

Again 2 thumbs up for your truck and project.

 

[kerry]

I'm buying a used camper so the prices can be pretty low. For instance, Denver Craigslist had a Skamper pop up for $500 last week. I probably would have used that, despite it's lack of a shower if it hadn't been snatched up in just a few minutes.
The other factor for me, is time. I don't have the time to build from scratch, although I'm willing to spend a couple of days modifying an existing camper. But bolting down a commercially built camper is appealing.

 

[Lynn]

Kerry,

I think you are going to have a really hard time finding a shower that doesn’t take advantage of that space behind the wheel wells, but you might try posting the question over on rv.net, if you haven’t already.

Are your bed sides the same interior height as a regular pickup bed? The reason I ask is that if you are planning on having to build a ‘basement’ to raise the camper enough to clear the bed sides (as I’ve seen mentioned by others), there might be another alternative for your shower.

If so, read on. If not, the following won’t work

Many expo campers and some small (Class B) RVs utilize a shower-in-the-hall approach. If you are building a basement to raise the camper anyway, then putting a drain hole in the floor shouldn’t be too much of an issue. Add a shower wand running from the sink faucet and a circular shower curtain, and you’re in business. ‘Course, you would also have to seal up the floor really well so that the shower water doesn’t rot things. You would be effectively turning the entire floor into a shower tray, so make sure and carry a squeegee for getting the water off the floor and down the drain.

Of course, it would be better if you could do some sort of shower tray that contains the water to the shower area. I’ve read on some European rig build sites about using shower trays that can be set in the hall when necessary, and stored when not, but I’m not sure how the drain would work.

Personally, I think it would be really trick to cut a section out of the hall floor and build a lowered shower tray (assuming, again, that you are going to have ‘basement’ space available). I think that cutting out the floor and lowering it would have less structural concerns than rebuilding a section of wall and floor, like you proposed. If you are building a ‘basement’ anyway, you would have options for re-enforcing the floor around the cut-out. Also, you could reuse the section that you removed from the floor to make an insert that brings the floor back up to standard height when the shower is not in use.

By having the shower tray lowered, the shower curtain can extend below the regular floor level and better contain the water. Also, at 5’10” you probably need all the head room you can get.

 

[kerry]

Consensus at RV net was that it was better to cut out the service body to accommodate the 'jut' rather than modify the camper. Seems reasonable, although a closer examination of the camper may modify that opinion.
I do have a basement. I had to raise the bed to the level of the top of the wheel wells in order to avoid finding a camper only 36" wide. Basement is the height of a 2x6.

 

[Lynn]

For the shower tray I’m thinking something simple like this:

from US Plastics.

Supported by framing in the basement.

Shouldn’t be hard to rig up a drain from Home Depot. You could just run a garden hose from the drain, through your basement, out the back, and gravity dump it into a plastic jug (or on the ground if your boondocking and using eco-friendly soap…)

Here’s a pic of the shower curtain idea, except that the one pictured is $454.00!!!! so I’m not even going to reference the site!

 

[Lynn]

BTW, congrats on the service body, as well. I haven't really run in those circles, but my impression is that Stahl makes one of the best.

 

[ntsqd]

snip......
Personally, I think it would be really trick to cut a section out of the hall floor and build a lowered shower tray (assuming, again, that you are going to have ‘basement’ space available). I think that cutting out the floor and lowering it would have less structural concerns than rebuilding a section of wall and floor, like you proposed. If you are building a ‘basement’ anyway, you would have options for re-enforcing the floor around the cut-out. Also, you could reuse the section that you removed from the floor to make an insert that brings the floor back up to standard height when the shower is not in use.

By having the shower tray lowered, the shower curtain can extend below the regular floor level and better contain the water. Also, at 5’10” you probably need all the head room you can get.

My mother's Roadtrek is built this way.

 

[Lynn]

Sorry if I'm derailing your thread with suggestions you don't need, I just wanna feel useful

Another option to the floor insert I talked about above would be to do something like Stephan Stewart did on his Unimog camper:

One of my earlier design ideas was to do a hall shower just inside the back door, using a slat floor for drainage. That way it would also serve to keep the camper clean. Just take your muddy boots off at the door and use the shower wand to wash away the mess.

My mother's Roadtrek is built this way.

When I mentioned 'Class B RVs' above, I was specifically thinking about the RoadTrek. They used to have some pix of their hall shower pan and insert on their web site, but I can't find any now.

 

[kerry]

I liked the bath/shower system that was in the old mid 80's Winnebago/Itasca motorhome built on the small Renault chassis (I can't remember the model name). The outer half of the bath/shower enclosure slid around the inner half. When unused, the area was only as deep as the toilet. (ie--roughly 1/2 size) When a person wanted to use the bath shower, they pulled out the enclosure wall into the 'hallway', used the bath, then pushed it back in when done. This seemed smart to me because it avoided using space for the bath that was really only necessary when someone was using it.
It's always irked me to see wasted bathroom space once I saw that system.

LeSharo/Phasar--I just googled the model name.

 

[Lynn]

It's always irked me to see wasted bathroom space once I saw that system.

ME TOO!! And what's up with that little corner sink that is too small to be useful, and is just a waste of space?

Now you got me started, though. Sorry for the hijack, but here it comes...

I don't know if you were around on the expeditioncampers site before it migrated over here, but I had a thread on 'optimizing the bathroom.'

Here's a summary of my thoughts on the subject :]

Some of the big boys (Unicat, ActionMobil) and even some cheap European 'caravans' have large sinks mounted above the toilet that fold up against the wall when not in use. Why not? You don't use a sink and toilet at the same time (unless you're really really sick...)

IIRC Thetford sells a wall unit that has a cassette toilet under a folding sink, that you can just drop in (unavailable in the US). It even has a built-in medicine cabinet above the fold-up sink. All in one nice unit.

In the grand old days of American rail travel Pullman had fold-away porcelain sinks in their sleeper cars. What happened to that concept?

I also ran across some pix of a really unusual motorhome built on (of all things) a Cadillac El Dorado chassis. It had a TOILET that folded up against the wall when not in use...

So, my dream is to combine the two. When you want to take a shower you fold 'em both up against the wall and you have a nice, large, permanent, hard-sided shower room. The sink would be big enough to be useful, and you wouldn't have to sit on the toilet to take a shower.

 

[kerry]

ME TOO!! And what's up with that little corner sink that is too small to be useful, and is just a waste of space?


Some of the big boys (Unicat, ActionMobil) and even some cheap European 'caravans' have large sinks mounted above the toilet that fold up against the wall when not in use. Why not? You don't use a sink and toilet at the same time (unless you're really really sick...)


So, my dream is to combine the two. When you want to take a shower you fold 'em both up against the wall and you have a nice, large, permanent, hard-sided shower room. The sink would be big enough to be useful, and you wouldn't have to sit on the toilet to take a shower.

Yep, my 307d motorhome had a sink like that and I loved it. It also had a porta potti instead of a fixed toilet. Take the toilet out when you want to shower, unless you prefer showering sitting down.
I do like cassette toilets.
I'm a landlord and I have one floor of a building with two apts that share a bath. I've considered using some of those ultra small euro bath ideas to add a bath in one of the apts.

 

[Lynn]

I'm a landlord and I have one floor of a building with two apts that share a bath. I've considered using some of those ultra small euro bath ideas to add a bath in one of the apts.

Funny you should mention that. I almost added to my above post that I saw an ad for a big city efficiency apartment that listed a ‘pullman sink.’ Unfortunately without pictures. I didn’t post this fact above, because I figured I was already too far off topic, but since you brought it up, and it’s your thread…

I had to share a bath in dorms, but can’t imagine renting an apartment with a shared bath…

I've always wondered why they call them ‘apartments’ when they’re all jammed together?

 

[Lynn]

So, have you found a camper yet?

 

[kerry]

I purchased a 1995 Texson ts1000 this weekend. It's a 10' camper with a bath and shower. It's the same camper as a Northstar ts 1000. I need to do some things before I can mount it on the truck. I need to get rid of the oil tanks currently on the truck and cut out the service body for the jut to fit. I've got the tie downs installed on the truck body and I bought a wire feed welder to do the welding on the service body once I make the cuts.
I had to rebuild the seals on one of the hydraulic jacks. PO delivered it to my storage space and was unloading with 3 regular jacks and a Hi-lift jack. I was surprised when the Hi lift fell away and the camper stood on 3 legs.