camper width & side overhang

[nomi]

Well hello! New here, have been lurking for a longer time though. I'm based in Europe, where trucks are differently built and categorized, and much stricter limits on GVM apply depending on your driving license. This forum seems to be quite US-centered, but I believe I can find some good advice here as I'm interested in building a truck camper, which is not as popular over here. What's available over here are trucks with a payload typically ranging from 700-1000kg (~1550-2200 lbs). I have experience traveling with smaller vans, having to be somewhat aware of weight limits, and don't immediately see this as an issue. Either way it's semi-off-topic as this isn't meant to turn into some type of vehicle advice thread, maybe I'll make another thread about that at some later point. My main concern right now is with the width of the camper and overhang on the sides.

So for my intended build in case of going down this route, I'd like to take off the tub and mount a pop-up camper box on the back (how best to do that is another thing). The vehicle would be intended for long-term overland travel going wherever, so the camper construction can be permanent, not interested in a slide-in, more space this way. Now, one of the major hurdles presenting itself to me: the trucks I'm looking at here are ~65-70" in width at their widest point (usually measured at the fenders, excluding mirrors) with the majority on the lower end of that. I'm relatively tall, and would strongly prefer to sleep across the width of the camper for obvious space reasons. 200cm (close to 79") is the most common bed lengthover here, and is just right for me. Now, 79" inner width + expected 2,5-3" wall each side (self-build with cold weather insulation) adds up to 84-85" of width on the camper box.

Using an example of one of the vehicles I'm interested in and have found blueprints of, its width at its widest (fenders) is approx 68,5", tub width is 59" and top width, which equals chassis width, is just under 45". Don't know how relevant all these numbers are, but at the least you can compare them to the camper box width numbers mentioned above and imagine how much the camper would visually stick out on the sides.

How much it overhangs on the sides depends on which number you use (for example, the fender number seems a bit pointless to use as a reference, maybe tub width + a little extra for the sidewalls of the tub, I suppose that's where you'd usually start measuring when speaking of side overhang on a slide-in). Picking non-exact numbers for illustration, 64" is just above the middle of fender and tub width, and 84" is the lower estimate of the camper box width, so that'd be 10" on both sides, could even turn out to be more.

This seems like a lot to me. I've seen plenty pics/videos of other campers and occasionally notice some that also seem to have a lot of side overhang but yeah, as mentioned, seems like a lot to me. I expect to be driving all sorts of roads and generally like to go off-road (not purposely rock crawling or something like that), so I care about how the car drives/handles in those situations. I can already see the total width of the vehicle potentially being a limiting factor on some tighter trails or trying to fit between trees/rocks or whatever, but that's ok. I'm wondering about others' experiences with campers that are much wider than the truck body, or general insight into how this'd affect driving, structural integrity, etc, as well as possible things to look out for/solutions/ideas. Of course also open to comments/talk about other things specific to my situation.

 

[kerry]

Our Northstar TS1000 slide in pop up is 7’ wide and does not extend beyond the sides of the utility body on our Fuso FG. 8.5’ is the maximum legal width in the USA

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

When I was measuring how my Skamper would fit on my F-150 I went by fender flare to fender flare for the truck width. The jacks have to clear everything on the back end of the truck.

 

[AbleGuy]

I’ve carried a camper of one sort or the other on various types of big or small pickup trucks over the past 51 years. I always bought the skinniest camper I could find to put on my trucks.

In my years of experience I found out that the taller and wider a camper you carry, the more annoying the pitching and swaying is that you have to deal with on winding roads. So if you go the wider camper route, you’re probably going to want to look at making some chassis/suspension mods to handle that action better.

Maybe you could re-evaluate your need/desire to sleep sideways in your camper. I’d imagine that you could easily fix up some kind of a folding bed extension, if neededto allow you to comfortably sleep lengthwise in the camper.

 

[1000arms]

... Maybe you could re-evaluate your need/desire to sleep sideways in your camper. I’d imagine that you could easily fix up some kind of a folding bed extension, if needed to allow you to comfortably sleep lengthwise in the camper.

A hammock that is hung from the left and right (rather than the head & foot mounted ones that work best with people shaped like bananas or canoes ) could be hung lengthwise in the camper for sleeping and quickly stowed when not needed.

 

[rruff]

A 1" (25mm) thick wall can be plenty stout. You may wish to make it thicker for insulation, but you don't need it for structure.

Just because beds are typically 79" long, that doesn't mean you need to have a bed that long. If you are near that tall though that's another story...

You can also build a cabover sleeping berth that lets you orient for-aft. The berth doesn't need to be 79"... on mine I have a "storage wall" that's 20" deep, 39" tall, and 77" wide that's low and forward in the main part of the camper, and is underneath part of the bed.

Another option is to have a bulge in the sides of the camper where your bed is to give you more room. That might be hard with a pop-up though.

And... there is no problem just making your camper wide enough to suit you. I have no idea if 85" causes issues with legal requirements where you live. In the US you need clearance lights for >80" and most campers are in the 90-100" range.

 

[tanuki.himself]

Are you talking about pickup trucks like the ford ranger/nissan navarra/toyota hilux, or bigger like a ford transit/mercedes sprinter cab chassis?
Spanish regs allow for an overhang of upto 300mm either side from a vehicle "designed to carry loads" - ie not stuck out of the back seat window - and up to 1m from the back of the standard vehicle before you start to need extra markers and lighting boards, and i think these are a local interpretation of more general EU-wide rules, My Ranger build is coming out at under 2200mm including things like gas vent covers etc, and that is with 34mm thick fibreglass/foam/fireglass walls, so intenal space is just over 2100 and i think i am still well within the rules. I think most motorhomes built on things like the sprinter/iveco daily chassis are wider, as are standard towable caravans. My limiting factor was that i wanted to be sure I could fit the box inside a standard shipping container....

 

[nomi]

thanks everyone for your comments.

In my years of experience I found out that the taller and wider a camper you carry, the more annoying the pitching and swaying is that you have to deal with on winding roads. So if you go the wider camper route, you’re probably going to want to look at making some chassis/suspension mods to handle that action better.

Maybe you could re-evaluate your need/desire to sleep sideways in your camper. I’d imagine that you could easily fix up some kind of a folding bed extension, if neededto allow you to comfortably sleep lengthwise in the camper.

Nice to hear about your experience (well, or not really, depending on how you look at it)- was afraid it'd be that way with the driving. Would do some mods either way but what you describe appears quite undesirable and from the start I had generally preferred a skinnier camper, as you also mentioned you've been looking for.

About sleeping, should've mentioned this in my initial post, I have chronic back pain and absolutely need a good mattress (of the firm type). Have been considering alternatives and am very open to ideas but in what I've seen until now quality mattresses of this type are usually not foldable. Additionally, the gap in the middle in case of for example 2-part mattresses doesn't provide the right support for me in a way similar to a sagging mattress, have tried.

Hammock as suggested by someone else who replied won't work for the same reason, pretty fun idea otherwise though, haven't heard of people doing that much outside of two wheel travel.

A 1" (25mm) thick wall can be plenty stout. You may wish to make it thicker for insulation, but you don't need it for structure.

Just because beds are typically 79" long, that doesn't mean you need to have a bed that long. If you are near that tall though that's another story...

You can also build a cabover sleeping berth that lets you orient for-aft. The berth doesn't need to be 79"... on mine I have a "storage wall" that's 20" deep, 39" tall, and 77" wide that's low and forward in the main part of the camper, and is underneath part of the bed.

Another option is to have a bulge in the sides of the camper where your bed is to give you more room. That might be hard with a pop-up though.

And... there is no problem just making your camper wide enough to suit you. I have no idea if 85" causes issues with legal requirements where you live. In the US you need clearance lights for >80" and most campers are in the 90-100" range.

Yeah for insulation as mentioned, plenty cold places over here and elsewhere in the world, and the camper is intended for extended-time living. And I am in fact also close to 79" tall yea.

I had considered a "storage wall" as a good idea as well, or rather I'd in most cases get one even sleeping sideways (2 person bed, I move around with a partner) as over here double cabs are relatively rare (depending on brand/year/model of course), and without a double cab a lengthwise arrangement would make for an unpractically deep "storage wall" and very little space left over.

Are you talking about pickup trucks like the ford ranger/nissan navarra/toyota hilux, or bigger like a ford transit/mercedes sprinter cab chassis?
Spanish regs allow for an overhang of upto 300mm either side from a vehicle "designed to carry loads" - ie not stuck out of the back seat window - and up to 1m from the back of the standard vehicle before you start to need extra markers and lighting boards, and i think these are a local interpretation of more general EU-wide rules, My Ranger build is coming out at under 2200mm including things like gas vent covers etc, and that is with 34mm thick fibreglass/foam/fireglass walls, so intenal space is just over 2100 and i think i am still well within the rules. I think most motorhomes built on things like the sprinter/iveco daily chassis are wider, as are standard towable caravans. My limiting factor was that i wanted to be sure I could fit the box inside a standard shipping container....

Hi! Was talking about pickup trucks like those you mentioned rather than the van cab chassis. Interesting to hear about those regulations. Like you, I also want to be able to fit it into a standard shipping container.

Went over to your build thread, some interesting ideas in there! A fibreglass frame? Will be checking it out. Now thinking I might somehow manage with thinner walls than initially indicated and 2m internal space to just fit the mattress should be enough, so that should help reduce total width somewhat, sounds like you ended up with a similar width to what I'm envisioning. I'm now living in and like to travel around in the more northern places of Europe (can recommend to anyone) so heating and insulation is a concern though, would also like to spend time in more northern places of North America. We're working with quite different vehicles, I'm looking at pre-common rail engines on purpose as a pretty hard requirement, and it seems that newer models like yours are somewhat wider. Older hiluxes are about 1700mm for example/comparison.

4x4 Sprinters are pretty capable as well I think (haven't driven one, but have driven a 4x4 pickup truck), and it's something I'm thinking of as an alternative option as they're about 1900mm wide to start with (as well as longer), so the side overhang of a box on a sprinter cab chassis should be having much less of an effect. But that'd be a quite different build (no cabover) and probably tight to fit even into a 40" hi container after mods. And there just aren't that many available, especially since as mentioned I'd want a pre-common rail engine. And from my experience and others' stories there'll be parts availability and familiarity issues in some parts of the world when compared to a toyota or nissan for example (have gone places with an older Merc van and a VW van), t my mechanical skills are limited. But definitely considering. I read that you're interested in visiting different places in Africa, but of course I don't know how remote you like to travel, with your choice of vehicle what are your thoughts on these kinds of issues (engine, parts, etc.)?

 

[tanuki.himself]

thanks everyone for your comments.



Nice to hear about your experience (well, or not really, depending on how you look at it)- was afraid it'd be that way with the driving. Would do some mods either way but what you describe appears quite undesirable and from the start I had generally preferred a skinnier camper, as you also mentioned you've been looking for.

About sleeping, should've mentioned this in my initial post, I have chronic back pain and absolutely need a good mattress (of the firm type). Have been considering alternatives and am very open to ideas but in what I've seen until now quality mattresses of this type are usually not foldable. Additionally, the gap in the middle in case of for example 2-part mattresses doesn't provide the right support for me in a way similar to a sagging mattress, have tried.

Hammock as suggested by someone else who replied won't work for the same reason, pretty fun idea otherwise though, haven't heard of people doing that much outside of two wheel travel.




Yeah for insulation as mentioned, plenty cold places over here and elsewhere in the world, and the camper is intended for extended-time living. And I am in fact also close to 79" tall yea.

I had considered a "storage wall" as a good idea as well, or rather I'd in most cases get one even sleeping sideways (2 person bed, I move around with a partner) as over here double cabs are relatively rare (depending on brand/year/model of course), and without a double cab a lengthwise arrangement would make for an unpractically deep "storage wall" and very little space left over.




Hi! Was talking about pickup trucks like those you mentioned rather than the van cab chassis. Interesting to hear about those regulations. Like you, I also want to be able to fit it into a standard shipping container.

Went over to your build thread, some interesting ideas in there! A fibreglass frame? Will be checking it out. Now thinking I might somehow manage with thinner walls than initially indicated and 2m internal space to just fit the mattress should be enough, so that should help reduce total width somewhat, sounds like you ended up with a similar width to what I'm envisioning. I'm now living in and like to travel around in the more northern places of Europe (can recommend to anyone) so heating and insulation is a concern though, would also like to spend time in more northern places of North America. We're working with quite different vehicles, I'm looking at pre-common rail engines on purpose as a pretty hard requirement, and it seems that newer models like yours are somewhat wider. Older hiluxes are about 1700mm for example/comparison.

4x4 Sprinters are pretty capable as well I think (haven't driven one, but have driven a 4x4 pickup truck), and it's something I'm thinking of as an alternative option as they're about 1900mm wide to start with (as well as longer), so the side overhang of a box on a sprinter cab chassis should be having much less of an effect. But that'd be a quite different build (no cabover) and probably tight to fit even into a 40" hi container after mods. And there just aren't that many available, especially since as mentioned I'd want a pre-common rail engine. And from my experience and others' stories there'll be parts availability and familiarity issues in some parts of the world when compared to a toyota or nissan for example (have gone places with an older Merc van and a VW van), t my mechanical skills are limited. But definitely considering. I read that you're interested in visiting different places in Africa, but of course I don't know how remote you like to travel, with your choice of vehicle what are your thoughts on these kinds of issues (engine, parts, etc.)?

i had originally thought about a cheaper, easier to work on/less complicated older truck, in particular a Nissan Navarra, but they are now infamous in the UK for frame corrosion and snapping in half, and the older you go the lower their weight rating is. We expect the truck to spend 95% of its time in Europe over the next 20 years, so as more and more places restrict older vehicles due to omissions we chose to invest in a Euro 6 compliant truck and the Ranger had the best weight rating available - Hilux always seem to be rated lower.

I too have back problems so wanted a proper sprung mattress. I have read good things about the Froli sleep system which could save weight and potentially allow the bed base to fold and work with a thinner topper mattress, but so far i have not been able to actually see and test one for myself and i'm not willing to punt out the money it would cost on a chance..

when we do Africa it will be the bottom 5 (SA, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique) and possible Madagascar if we can the truck over there. The ranger is certainly available across SA - my engine was actually built there - and we don't tend to go that far off the normal tourist routes as the things we want to see are the same as most people - game parks, sand dunes, historic battlefields, waterfalls. My experiences of Australia and the Americas is that there are very few places that I want to see that are really that remote from mechanics and parts can be delivered in a few days....and that included Suzuki parts in deepest darkest Peru

 

[nomi]

i had originally thought about a cheaper, easier to work on/less complicated older truck, in particular a Nissan Navarra, but they are now infamous in the UK for frame corrosion and snapping in half, and the older you go the lower their weight rating is. We expect the truck to spend 95% of its time in Europe over the next 20 years, so as more and more places restrict older vehicles due to omissions we chose to invest in a Euro 6 compliant truck and the Ranger had the best weight rating available - Hilux always seem to be rated lower.

I too have back problems so wanted a proper sprung mattress. I have read good things about the Froli sleep system which could save weight and potentially allow the bed base to fold and work with a thinner topper mattress, but so far i have not been able to actually see and test one for myself and i'm not willing to punt out the money it would cost on a chance..

when we do Africa it will be the bottom 5 (SA, Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique) and possible Madagascar if we can the truck over there. The ranger is certainly available across SA - my engine was actually built there - and we don't tend to go that far off the normal tourist routes as the things we want to see are the same as most people - game parks, sand dunes, historic battlefields, waterfalls. My experiences of Australia and the Americas is that there are very few places that I want to see that are really that remote from mechanics and parts can be delivered in a few days....and that included Suzuki parts in deepest darkest Peru

Thank you for your thoughts. I have also been looking at the Navara, I believe the ones with rust and frame snapping issues are early D40 models, I'm looking at the D22 with the infamous engine problem, but vehicle appears good otherwise, would just replace the relevant parts as a precaution. What bothers me most is the low weight rating, and that goes for most of the trucks.

I understand your reasonings for your vehicle choice, makes sense. Nice to hear you were able to find parts easily on your travels, I hear really conflicting experiences from different people, until now finding parts hasn't been too difficult for us either but we've traveled with relatively common vehicles. not sure what to make of it. I'm reconsidering how important it is to avoid common rail technology. However, we do have plans to spend an extended time in countries where diesel quality will be an issue, so I will at least look to get no newer than Euro 3. I've been worried (and still somewhate am) about additional complications and potential lack of serviceability might there be a need.

Not liking the idea of major side overhang and worry about payload limits has me looking more into the older 4x4 Sprinters these days, and I like what I'm reading so far. More spacious also. Although they might not be as common everywhere as they are around here, I understand MB has a good worldwide parts-shipping network.

Well then, will be around to see if anyone has any further input, also regarding the original question.