Never had to use it but when in bear country I feel better with a big stick. 12 ga at night. Variety of handguns, but no matter what the handgun it will always be underpowered. People talk about the 44 mag like it is a howitzer, it has about the power of a 30-30 and that isn't my top choice for bear. The 454 is better, it has at 100 yards what the 44 mag has at the muzzle. Like Freedom Arms revolvers but the tolerances are so tight that it doesn't take a lot of dirt and grime to bind them up so unfortunately, they are out for me. The Ruger Super Redhawk grip design does not agree with my hands at all in 454, seems to kick twice as hard as the Freedom Arms with same loads. The .460 is nice because the variety of loads you can use in it but it is kinda bulky.
Camping with Firearm-Post Bear Mauling
- Thread starter ECVMatt
- Start date
mezmochill
Is outside
I know fishing guides on the Kenai river up in AK that use marine flare guns with a chest mount as a DETERRENT . I trust there judgement. That place is THICK with brown bear.
Speaking of hunting guides, what does everyone think about the Marlin "guide gun"? Basically a short version of the 45-70 lever. Up here in Canada we can't carry handguns, and even if we could, it seems like nothing short of a .50 S&W with a 500 grain is any good...
I guess a black bear is not as difficult, but I heard instances of a regular 12 gauge slug failing to penetrate the large bones of a charging grizzly. The 45-70, especially in modern hotter charges, seems to have more "stopping power".
gm13
Adventurer
There are Brennekes for the 12ga: http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/241.html.
I like the Guide Gun, nice heft to it but handy. I know it's claimed the Remlins are up to speed now but I've yet to see one with the fit and finish of a "JM" Marlin. 405gr of flat top lead at 2050fps is hard to argue with. (it's probably more like 1950fps out of the 18"bbl)
I like the Guide Gun, nice heft to it but handy. I know it's claimed the Remlins are up to speed now but I've yet to see one with the fit and finish of a "JM" Marlin. 405gr of flat top lead at 2050fps is hard to argue with. (it's probably more like 1950fps out of the 18"bbl)
Harmgrissom
Observer
I have the Marlin 1895 ABL (45-70) and love it. Some of the Buffalo Bore loads are exactly what the Dr ordered in Bear Country. I figure if its good enough for a Bull Elephant, then anything I could possibly encounter, is handled. Hard to argue with a 405gr pill at 2k fps.
rayra
Expedition Leader
That's just silly. Even a modicum of familiarity and practice with arms would have served well. Any weapon, every weapon would serve. It's the fight in the person that matters, not the weapon.
402xjeeper
Observer
Speaking of tasers, I wonder what that would do to a bear. Probably just piss it off even more.
http://www.itaser.com/
Stun guns work well, the sound of the arc makes black bears run, maybe some ozone smell. You do not shock them, just hold them up and push the button.
Bbasso
Expedition goofball
If I were to camp in bear country I wouldn't carry anything less than a 45 ACP, even then I would be shopping for something much more stout,, like a .44mag with 300g & a 4inch barrel. When I hear people carrying 9 mm and .40 for self defense against wildlife I wonder...
Scary news from a local family here in BC:
http://globalnews.ca/news/2155638/man-shoots-grizzly-bear-that-broke-into-his-kimberley-home/?utm_source=Other&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014
The wife's friend confirmed the shot to be a 300 Mag Weatherby. It took 2 shots to "drop" the grizzly, and another to finally put it out.
That cartridge punches out 4500 lb-ft of muzzle energy (3 times the Desert Eagle's .50 AE).
And the bear wasn't even charging. Hate to think how tough it's to drop a full charging grizzly / brown bear...
http://globalnews.ca/news/2155638/man-shoots-grizzly-bear-that-broke-into-his-kimberley-home/?utm_source=Other&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014
The wife's friend confirmed the shot to be a 300 Mag Weatherby. It took 2 shots to "drop" the grizzly, and another to finally put it out.
That cartridge punches out 4500 lb-ft of muzzle energy (3 times the Desert Eagle's .50 AE).
And the bear wasn't even charging. Hate to think how tough it's to drop a full charging grizzly / brown bear...
GregSplett
Adventurer
Now I have heard it all when it comes to bears....
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the killed hiker in Yellowstone. Apparently the bear ate some of him and stashed the body for later? That's not normal.
There's no way to tell if things would have been different if he had a firearm, but having more protective tools at your disposal certainly can't hurt.
There's no way to tell if things would have been different if he had a firearm, but having more protective tools at your disposal certainly can't hurt.
I got to jump in here and put some myths to rest.
First off, I am big proponent of bear spray when moving through bear country, but here is a little news for some people....bear spray doesn't always work.
I've given full blasts (to an angry and confident black bear) and he barely flinched....and continued to march right into my camp and steal my food bag. That, and depending on the wind, that stuff can sometimes affect you just as much as it affects the bear, which is not a situation you want to be in.
Secondly, a firearm, even a 9mm pistol, is very much a good backup measure to have for bears (especially if we are talking about dealing with the bears in an escalating manner of 'verbal, posture, spray, kill/disable'). Everyone likes to tell old wives tales about that big/mean grizzly who took 5-6 shots of some small caliber and continued on his rampage....has that ever happened? Maybe, though I haven't seen or heard of it personally.
The reality is, if an animal, even a bear, gets hit by any sort of firearm projectile, he/she is going to seriously reconsider whether or not he wants to continue on his aggression or food-seeking. And if that shot is even somewhat well-placed (hips, chest, head) he/she is going to quickly lose the ability to function and move. More relevant, if bear hears the gunshot and the following crack of the bullet as it passes by him, he will be spooked or at least confused.
I hear a similar argument all the time within the firearm community: some people say that anything smaller than a .45 is not worthy carrying for everyday self-defense because the smaller calibers don't have enough "stopping power." Stopping power isn't a real term when it comes to firearm ballistics. A 9mm or even smaller will be sufficient for 99% of the self-defense situations you might find yourself in....that 1% (some aggressor with no mental inhibitions or high on drugs) might make it past the first 1-2 9mm shots, but you really have to be something special to ignore the next 5-6 shots.
The same applies to bears. Somewhere in the deep woods, is there a huge, BAMF of a grizzly that could soak up a shot or two from a small caliber pistol and continue his charge? Maybe. What's the probability of you meeting that guy? More importantly, what's the probability of that BAMF grizzly continuing his charge after he takes 4-5 more shots? The answer: very low.
Carrying a regular caliber firearm is very handy for bear defense. Obviously a shotgun or large caliber pistol would be even better, but how many people pack those kinds of firearms for vehicle or foot travel? The firearm's discharge, in most cases, will be more than enough to scare aware any would-be animal aggressors thus allowing the whole situation to be resolved without any loss of life.
If people want to hike/travel through bear country without a firearm, that's perfectly okay too as long as they take the right precautions (spray, travel in group, food bag up in the trees, ect.). But there is nothing wrong with traveling with a firearm; like everything else in life, it needs to be used responsibly and it certainly gives you more options when a situation turns bad.
First off, I am big proponent of bear spray when moving through bear country, but here is a little news for some people....bear spray doesn't always work.
I've given full blasts (to an angry and confident black bear) and he barely flinched....and continued to march right into my camp and steal my food bag. That, and depending on the wind, that stuff can sometimes affect you just as much as it affects the bear, which is not a situation you want to be in.
Secondly, a firearm, even a 9mm pistol, is very much a good backup measure to have for bears (especially if we are talking about dealing with the bears in an escalating manner of 'verbal, posture, spray, kill/disable'). Everyone likes to tell old wives tales about that big/mean grizzly who took 5-6 shots of some small caliber and continued on his rampage....has that ever happened? Maybe, though I haven't seen or heard of it personally.
The reality is, if an animal, even a bear, gets hit by any sort of firearm projectile, he/she is going to seriously reconsider whether or not he wants to continue on his aggression or food-seeking. And if that shot is even somewhat well-placed (hips, chest, head) he/she is going to quickly lose the ability to function and move. More relevant, if bear hears the gunshot and the following crack of the bullet as it passes by him, he will be spooked or at least confused.
I hear a similar argument all the time within the firearm community: some people say that anything smaller than a .45 is not worthy carrying for everyday self-defense because the smaller calibers don't have enough "stopping power." Stopping power isn't a real term when it comes to firearm ballistics. A 9mm or even smaller will be sufficient for 99% of the self-defense situations you might find yourself in....that 1% (some aggressor with no mental inhibitions or high on drugs) might make it past the first 1-2 9mm shots, but you really have to be something special to ignore the next 5-6 shots.
The same applies to bears. Somewhere in the deep woods, is there a huge, BAMF of a grizzly that could soak up a shot or two from a small caliber pistol and continue his charge? Maybe. What's the probability of you meeting that guy? More importantly, what's the probability of that BAMF grizzly continuing his charge after he takes 4-5 more shots? The answer: very low.
Carrying a regular caliber firearm is very handy for bear defense. Obviously a shotgun or large caliber pistol would be even better, but how many people pack those kinds of firearms for vehicle or foot travel? The firearm's discharge, in most cases, will be more than enough to scare aware any would-be animal aggressors thus allowing the whole situation to be resolved without any loss of life.
If people want to hike/travel through bear country without a firearm, that's perfectly okay too as long as they take the right precautions (spray, travel in group, food bag up in the trees, ect.). But there is nothing wrong with traveling with a firearm; like everything else in life, it needs to be used responsibly and it certainly gives you more options when a situation turns bad.
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Team Ball's Out
Adventurer
Camping I always carry a 9mm and a 44 mag.
PirateMcGee
Expedition Leader
Neither does a firearm, and statistically speaking a firearm is less effective in comparison. In black bear country attacks are extremely rare in the first place, add in bear spray and it's super super super super rare that someone has been attacked after deploying spray. I don't know of a single documented incident actually.
Grizzly Bears are different, but attacks are extremely rare. There are documented cases of grizzly bears being shot multiple times (even with rifles) and having plenty of gusto to kill.
On the flip side plenty of people have accidentally shot themselves or worse someone else while camping/hiking.
In the end danger from wildlife is pretty darn low on the risk ranking when out n about.