Campsite scalping

[JaSAn]

The problem:
- Drive up FCFS favors locals and people with money.
- Computerized registration FCFS favors computer savvy people/companies.

A young family in the midwest on a limited budget has little chance of showing their children Yellowstone/Tetons/Glacier, et.al.

I don't know what the answer is but to me it is obvious that the FCFS system in popular areas isn't working for ordinary working stiffs.

One thing that could be done to curb scalping is to make reservations non-transferrable, verified by vehicle license number and driver's name before you are allowed in the campground.

 

[Porkchopexpress]

First come first serve is not the solution ?
Best fix I’ve come across is the old fashion telephone call to a real person at the campground with a reservation book?. Cant game that.

When people are willing to camp in a Walmart parking lot to save $50 on a TV on black Friday, I don't stand a chance on a pure FCFS system. If they did switch to a phone call system, you would have to navigate 30 minutes of submenus before reaching a subcontractor in India who will accidentally disconnect the call halfway through the reservation.

 

[BritKLR]

It's the new world order.......

- Very very low LE investigative priority.
- Absurdly limited LE resources in the city, county, state and federal park system(s) (0-1 Ranger for 100,000's acres of NF, etc....)
- Jurisdictional riffs between Parks Depts and local LE limits inter agency cooperation (Funding issue)
- Federal parks LE are extremely hamstrung, bureaucraticly, administratively and politically controlled.....literally their operational authority and priorities will change on a daily basis depending on which politician yells loudest and the spinelessness of their appointed agency head.
- Fall-out from "defund the police", "hate the police", "KAP", you actually have a reduced interest and participation in the Camp Host program due to the poor retirees don't want to get involved in quasi-enforcement activity and be perceived as the "man".
- Ain't going to get any better due to limited LE recruitment/retention for the foreseeable future.

 

[workerdrone]

^ Meanwhile I take a look on Nextdoor and the solution for everything, from noisy neighbors to wandering cats, seems to be, "call the police."

 

[WeLikeCamping]

As currently implemented, the reservation system is flawed. It seems kinda silly to be charged a "reservation fee" when you have to pay the site fee up front, and you have to use their system which I would hardly call "convenient". Heck, they should be paying people to use their system. It's to the point that I don't even want to go near a National park. These are government parks, which a part of your taxes goes to support - not to mention the myriad other ways they have monetized the parks systems. Licensed/contracted vendors for food, beverage and trinkets and camping. What the heck do they do with all this money?

 

[JaSAn]

Hear is a possible solution that will work! We build new campgrounds!!! . . .

Unfortunately Frenchie, your solution is too logical and doesn't provide enough opportunities for graft. The preferred (political) solution must provide an ongoing cash stream to politicians and their cronies. So, you 'sell' the concession to a corporation who will 'improve' and tailor the camping opportunities to maximize profits.

As currently implemented, the reservation system is flawed . . . Heck, they should be paying people to use their system . . .

Flawed in who's estimation? The current system is designed to keep the riff-raff out (us) and allow corporations to profit (and contribute to campaign coffers).

 

[calicamper]

Hear is a possible solution that will work! We build new campgrounds!!! The government already has BLM, Forest Service, wild life reserves, ETC. The cost of funding is easy, just print more money. Cut (override) the Red Tape and environmental studies (this alone would cut 10 or more years off of the waiting time to build it and use it).

They will need to overhaul the campgrounds in the near future anyway. They will have to electric at all of them for the new electric vehicles. (you needed a charge to get their and you may need a bit of power charge to leave. Just think what a clear open view we will have of the forest with the install the solar panels where the view blocking trees are now.

Do not get your panties in a bunch, just yet! I will not be upset, as it is going to take some time before this can be done. At my age I do not expect to see it, so do not get all bunched up for me!

Agreed
Not to mention more properly engineered hiking and biking trails!! Regions that have taken to bike trail development have seen increases in event permits, small business growth etc. All good , healthy and low impact stuff. Sadly the ATV stuff has gone off the stupid scale even long time Moab ATV folks are starting to get miffed about old well used trails being destroyed by abusive ATV operators. But hiking and biking stuff has been pretty solidly proven to work well regarding low impact ?

 

[calicamper]

We have one of the first New state campgrounds going into a severely lacking region on an old defunct US base here in CA on the coast dhould be done this next yr. Its a small step in the right direction. Lots of great cycling trails in that area and close to a major US tourism destination. Its a first step in the right direction but we need like 300% more effort and support across the country in this sort of thing. ?

 

[roving1]

In my perfect world 50% would be FCFS and 50% would be reservation made no more than 48 hours in advance and no more than 1 reservation per quarter per person if occupancy rate is over 80% average.

Also the initial request needs to be done on a lottery system. Submit a request and then X number of people are chosen randomly to then make the reservation. None of this furiously clicking at 12:01am Wednesday morning BS.

I can't stand reservations systems now as they stand. I tried for 6 months to get something on White Rim one time and just gave up. I don't like my local state parks much but one somewhat close to my work with sites on a beach is booked every weekend for the whole year 24 hours after reservation opens in spring. It's pointless.

 

[Todd780]

None of this furiously clicking at 12:01am Wednesday morning BS.

This is how it is here now too. But, we managed to get several trips booked. I am fine with the current system. It's worked for years with no issues.

Here we can book 90 days in advance. If you think it's bad now, imagine all the people racing to book if they only had 48 hours to do so.

I think once travel restrictions are lifted it will slow down in a year or two.

 

[WeLikeCamping]

I once booked a campsite at a local county park. My Belgian niece had never camped before, so I wanted to make it as easy as possible for her and her kids. When we got to the site I had reserved, I noted the site next to us was open, so I decided to go down to the ranger place and reserve this spot for them. Not Possible! So many rules - I could not reserve more than one site, so I asked if my wife standing next to me could reserve the second site, sure enough that worked for the rangers.

Often my problem with people like this is that there is absolutely zero deviation from the rules as interpreted by whomever is saying no. In this case, the clerk had to ask her supervisor who had to ask the ranger on duty who approved it. It's a freaking desert park on the edge of the city, not a "destination campground" If we hadn't purchased the additional site, it likely would have sat empty the entire weekend.

 

[BritKLR]

Hear is a possible solution that will work! We build new campgrounds!!! The government already has BLM, Forest Service, wild life reserves, ETC. The cost of funding is easy, just print more money. Cut (override) the Red Tape and environmental studies (this alone would cut 10 or more years off of the waiting time to build it and use it).

Cough, cough.......I like your suggestion yet, after spending years and attending/participating in dozens of planning meetings in the Arapahoe NF Ranger District (Boulder, Co.) specifically having to do with developing/improving/maintaining current campgrounds and discussing the slightest possibility of creating new ones the NF bureaucrats won't let it happen, if anything they'll close more.

 

[Alloy]

Agreed
Not to mention more properly engineered hiking and biking trails!! Regions that have taken to bike trail development have seen increases in event permits, small business growth etc. All good , healthy and low impact stuff. Sadly the ATV stuff has gone off the stupid scale even long time Moab ATV folks are starting to get miffed about old well used trails being destroyed by abusive ATV operators. But hiking and biking stuff has been pretty solidly proven to work well regarding low impact ?

Anywhere humans are provided access is not low impact due to the fact there is a good percentage of humans want to do as they like.

 

[calicamper]

Anywhere humans are provided access is not low impact due to the fact there is a good percentage of humans want to do as they like.

You haven’t ventured beyond the parking lots I take it?

 

[Photobug]

As much as I think the lack of spots is bullspit, enforcement is not likely to happen. I would like to see a task force to go after the scalpers, but to expect the rangers or camp hosts to go around and check license plates and ask for proof of ID is likely not going to happen. They have enough issues to deal with without being reservation police.