Can I put "minimal-build" Spacekap Diablo on 1/2 ton 4x4 crewcab 6.5ft bed?

[maze.sole.mana]

It seems like many carry Diablo on their 1/2 tons but on the other hand, many others also told me I would need to get at least 3/4 ton. Just wanted some thoughts since I really don't like the size of 3/4 ton and if I can manage it with 1/2 ton, I would do it that way...

I know there's HDPP, but that's been impossible to find, so I would like to limit to 1/2 vs 3/4 discussion instead.

 

[rruff]

If it's just the shell, they weigh around ~800 lbs as I recall. What else are you adding? If you are loading for extended trips with all the usual things, you'll probably be way over GVWR with a 1/2 ton... but so is everyone else...

 

[@Michael]

The exact truck you are planning on using is important. Payloads vary all over the map.

A quick check on Ford's web site shows a new F150 XLT 6.5ft box SuperCrew having a 2000lb payload. I'd expect it to easily handle 800lbs setting on the bed.

 

[maze.sole.mana]

A quick check on Ford's web site shows a new F150 XLT 6.5ft box SuperCrew having a 2000lb payload. I'd expect it to easily handle 800lbs setting on the bed.

Is new one typically higher payload than a few years older ones or are they basically same?

I would imagine that 2000lbs payload will be quite lower for the actual payload sticker too?

 

[rruff]

A quick check on Ford's web site shows a new F150 XLT 6.5ft box SuperCrew having a 2000lb payload.

Need to check the sticker. Plus, GVWR is a number the manufacturer sets for liability and warranty on the stock truck. For a non commercial vehicle in the US that is all it means.

 

[maze.sole.mana]

Need to check the sticker. Plus, GVWR is a number the manufacturer sets for liability and warranty on the stock truck. For a non commercial vehicle in the US that is all it means.

Yeah I've been trying to distinguish if this GVWR is a "hard" line with serious impact on the handling or just "wink-wink" for regulation/liability purpose I expect my build will be tip-toeing around the GVWR limit if fully loaded out (and this is over-estimation for the safety purpose)., but I also would like F150 maneurability and size if I don't need to commit to F250...

 

[rruff]

Yeah I've been trying to distinguish if this GVWR is a "hard" line with serious impact on the handling

It's probably a hard line for manufacturer warranty and liability. If something breaks or someone gets hurt, and they know that you were over GVWR, then you can't blame them. Whatever they base the number on is a mystery. 1/2 ton trucks are designed to ride and handle unloaded since most people use them as cars, so they have street tires and soft suspension.

As with any rig, you should upgrade your tires and suspension if you plan on hauling heavy loads regularly. If you are looking at a F150 it would also be a good idea to pick the brains of people who have experience hauling with that truck. See how the axles and bearings hold up.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

It's probably a hard line for manufacturer warranty and liability. If something breaks or someone gets hurt, and they know that you were over GVWR, then you can't blame them. Whatever they base the number on is a mystery.

It is not a mystery. I'm as cynical as the next guy but you look at the frame of a k2500 vs a k1500 and you see a big difference- literally. And the springs. And the diff. And brakes. And the engine choices. The length and weight of the vehicle itself and whether it not its 4x4 or 4x2 comes into play as well.

I have a k1500 and it clearly can not hold as many bricks as a 2500. Put in a half pallet and I'm sagging while a 2500 barely knows they are thete

 

[rruff]

It is not a mystery.

I didn't say they were the same! I'd hope all that extra weight would result in more beef and durability. But it's a mystery because they don't tell you how they set the GVWR. There are no universal qualifying performance or safety tests... say, stopping distance or slalom speed while loaded. And both of these will be greatly impacted by mods that people do for overlanding. It's not hard to make 1/2 ton performance as safe (arguably safer) than a 1 ton with the same load, but durability is another question.

 

[2025 deleted member]

I didn't say they were the same! I'd hope all that extra weight would result in more beef and durability. But it's a mystery because they don't tell you how they set the GVWR. There are no universal qualifying performance or safety tests... say, stopping distance or slalom speed while loaded. And both of these will be greatly impacted by mods that people do for overlanding. It's not hard to make 1/2 ton performance as safe (arguably safer) than a 1 ton with the same load, but durability is another question.

Especially when you can up you gvwr in Australia with nothing more than the equivalent of a lift kit here in the US.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

I didn't say they were the same! I'd hope all that extra weight would result in more beef and durability. But it's a mystery because they don't tell you how they set the GVWR. There are no universal qualifying performance or safety tests... say, stopping distance or slalom speed while loaded. And both of these will be greatly impacted by mods that people do for overlanding. It's not hard to make 1/2 ton performance as safe (arguably safer) than a 1 ton with the same load, but durability is another question.

Sure. I got ya. You can make a half ton into what we call a heavy-half with the 3/4 ton springs, breaks, axle, etc.

are there really no universal standards though? Engineering standards of some sort?

Not to argue too seriously, I know you are being a little tongue in cheek, but Engineering standards like Finite Element Analysis apply. There is a significant amount of standard engineering principals that apply, and every component is tested, with the lowest factor determining the rating.

 

[rruff]

Engineering standards of some sort?

The manufacturer's liability and reputation.

When I bought my truck I considered a 3/4-1 ton, but looking at reliability and issues I wasn't too impressed. On the other hand this Tundra drivetrain and chassis had been out for 10 years, and had been overloaded, flogged, and abused by thousands of people and had a very good rep. So I got what I got, and I'm not disappointed... yet...

I'd be somewhat skeptical of a new F150, partially because it's so light... with similar specs, ~800 lbs lighter than my truck. I'd definitely be checking user experiences if I was planning to haul heavy. I don't see much buzz about using these for overlanding or offroading, but maybe I just don't notice.

 

[ThundahBeagle]

It seems like many carry Diablo on their 1/2 tons but on the other hand, many others also told me I would need to get at least 3/4 ton. Just wanted some thoughts since I really don't like the size of 3/4 ton and if I can manage it with 1/2 ton, I would do it that way...

I know there's HDPP, but that's been impossible to find, so I would like to limit to 1/2 vs 3/4 discussion instead.

While no "outside, 3rd party" evaluations seem to exist. Engineering principals and standards are applied during the design and build of all of these trucks.

A half ton truck will stand 800 to 900 lbs shell alone. Now add your gear, your water, your fuel, your food. YOU. Any and all passengers (including dogs). It all adds up and will quickly approach if not surpass GVWR.

I try hard not to regularly tow much more than half capacity, for example. If you follow that rule, your truck will tow all day every day for years.

Simply put, an HD 3/4 ton will take all of that quite handily, and not break a sweat.

If you can afford it, find a 3/4 ton. That is not to discount the experience of @rruff or anyone else. But if you can afford it, go HD and you will have much better performance and safety without even thinking about it

 

[rruff]

While no "outside, 3rd party" evaluations seem to exist. Engineering principals and standards are applied during the design and build of all of these trucks.

It takes good engineering of course, but at the end of the day it's the lawyers and accountants and marketeers that run the show. They want few failures... but not too few, which would mean it's over designed.

A half ton truck will stand 800 to 900 lbs shell alone. Now add your gear, your water, your fuel, your food. YOU. Any and all passengers (including dogs). It all adds up and will quickly approach if not surpass GVWR.

Heck, just put some armor, suspension, and tire upgrades on it, and you'll eat up a few hundred pounds easy.

But if you can afford it, go HD and you will have much better performance and safety without even thinking about it

I think it's much more of a durability question than handling or safety. Based on my survey of braking performance tests, modern trucks are traction limited, and the heavier they are, the longer it takes to stop. And for handling, a heavy duty truck will be on the back foot there as well provided you've beefed up the 1/2 ton to carry the load.

 

[simple]

You can check out my spacekap build. Link at the bottom.

I usually load light camping gear, 5 gallons of water, box of fire wood. Basic stuff for a 2-3 day outing. 3 occupants, small dog. Sometimes a 150lbs of bikes and rack.

All the weight is on the floor for transit. No high built storage. The nose only carries down sleeping bags, pads and pillows.

No suspension mods, E rated tires. The vehicle is never unstable, doesn't hit the rear bump stops and braking over mtn passes is sufficient. That being said, I drive conservatively and shift down for descents. I drive in tow mode and also let off the throttle at shift points.

More weight than that, it would need airbags or different rear springs.

In a nut shell like everyone has said you can run up to GVWR on a 1/2 ton but you are potentially stressing the vehicle. 2500 truck gives a lot more cushion.

I'm happy with the set up, like the GM 5.3 liter engine and average 16mpg.