Canter 6X6 - Yes or No.

[gait]

still a nice idea though ........

I'm waiting for wheel based motors with independent traction control! Get rid of all that clunky transmission stuff.

Depends on the rig roads, they've usually been travelled by heavy things. Seismic tracks are a different kettle of fish, but still they've been travelled. Is there an option to lose some weight?

 

[Amesz00]

Question though, if you're starting with an FE, I assume you'll be buying all the bits to make it 6x6, tcase, 3 axles (the fe diff isn't lsd, and probably a different ratio than you want) driveshafts etc.
why buy an fg tcase and not something more generic/common?
And if the only reason you're thinking to start with an fe is for the straight chassis, why not a- try to make the gooseneck work on your truck or b- seperate the gooseneck behind the motor and make up some 6mm straight rails?

For your intended useage are you set on a canter sized truck? If you can go bigger, axletech 4000 can be had brand new milsurp in the US for dirt cheap and have everything you could want for an offroad truck- air disk brakes, air lockers, planetary hubs and CTIS. Downside- the skinny version is ~2300 over tyres and almost 600kg
Oh and they come in a thru-diff with power divider.

 

[Bris31]

(Dan, sorry side tracking your thread a bit more)
Julian, good point. Both Siemens & Cummins are making serious moves in this direction.
Their wheel motors are driven by diesel generator on board.

Siemens 800-ton GVW BelAZ 75710 mining truck run by 4 Siemens 1,200 kW Electric Motors

 

[Aussie Iron]

I know this is going to sound absolutely so far left field, but?
How about electric drive to trailer differential? .............

That is so far left field, but lets say in a good way. I hadn't even thought about going that direction. !!!!!

Question though, if you're starting with an FE, I assume you'll be buying all the bits to make it 6x6, tcase, 3 axles (the fe diff isn't lsd, and probably a different ratio than you want) driveshafts etc.
why buy an fg tcase and not something more generic/common?

Yes starting with an FE is mainly for the chassis and maybe a six speed gearbox, all the other pieces I already have. These have been collected for the power trailer. Collected spare FG 637 Canter complete, spare transfer case, spare axles etc. Another cab could potentially put Candys' rolled Canter back on the road.

What that will give me is a chassis that has an frame number that has a weight rating allocated to that chassis (hopefully 6500Kg). The load sharing tandem rear axles should get me a legal load carrying of 5,600Kg on the rear. It will also give me a spare engine (it will be bought with a 4D33 4.2 engine only) which I would like to have, as another project is to fit piston squirters and super charge to get a lot better low down torque. But that is down the track.

I don't want to go to a larger truck because we want to keep our width down. A lot of these tracks are very much over grown as they haven't been used for a long time. We will shed as much weight as possible but in the long run we want to do quite a bit of exploring and it won't be a rush trip so some comfort will be necessary (no swags) otherwise Head of Finance won't let it happen.

Dan.

 

[Amesz00]

Fair enough, thought that might be the case. Pretty much every track that's worth doing in WA is exactly canter width- or narrower.
Another way of doing it is like the Brazilian engesa trucks. Single rear axle with a large pivot on each end, and a geared walking beam each way to 2 sets of hubs. Kind of like a grader I guess. Huge travel coz you don't have shafts or links to bind up.

 

[Aussie Iron]

Fair enough, thought that might be the case. Pretty much every track that's worth doing in WA is exactly canter width- or narrower.
Another way of doing it is like the Brazilian engesa trucks. Single rear axle with a large pivot on each end, and a geared walking beam each way to 2 sets of hubs. Kind of like a grader I guess. Huge travel coz you don't have shafts or links to bind up.

Actually I have seen that type of rear axle setup. Be really great offroad but I wonder how it would handle traveling at highway speeds as they are normally chain driven in the walking beam. Well graders are and I've broken a few of them.

Dan.

 

[PKDreamers]

Hi what about a temporary set eg like the old old Mack ?? I think, belt drive on the bogie??? Or a temporary chain set up hub to hub?

 

[yabanja]

If you could tilt the axles to increase the clearance under the pumpkins it would be very beneficial...>


Allan

 

[dan85]

what about some hydraulic drive hubs on the trailer fed by a driven pump off the truck motor? generally switched off until its needed then on when its soft and crappy. Can also use it to drive a winch etc

 

[DzlToy]

NWF HERO transfer cases can be had with dual rear outputs, but they are not cheap.

If you can find military surplus axles (top loading Rockwell) from a 2.5 ton (US) truck, you will only need a traditional transfer case with a single rear output. Steve Gerstner (Differential Engineering) has made Ford 9" axles with a pass through to connect two rear axles together. The 9" diff is surprisingly strong, but you would likely need a custom housing for a Canter application. Three of them might run you 20-30k USD.

There is/was a company in the UAE doing 6x6 conversions on Land Cruisers and I am sure you are aware of Patriot Campers 6x6 Mega-Tourer that is engineered and plated, per ADR. Start about 9 minutes into the video below, if you wish to avoid a tour of Dubai and some small talk.


I presume that you have done tons of research already, so forgive me if you are aware of these builds already.

The beauty of a 6WD and portals, a la TGB 13/C304

 

[Aussie Iron]

I've done lots of research but there is all ways more.

NWF HERO transfer cases are not in the budget at around $6,000 to 7,000 US plus import (could well be in the range of $2,500 Aus.) into Australia. Rockwells - well we are not even going there. Not available in Australia, to slow unless regearing, brakes may be a bigger problem than the Canter brakes by what I have read and by the looks of them may be a lot heavier than Canter diffs..
Ford 9" pass through is probably available here in Australia and used by another one of our Landcruiser/ Patrol 6x6 conversion mobs. Too light for me, we will be staying with Canter diffs.
The 6x6 in the UAE is Australian Built and shipped over either as a complete vehicle or in kit form to their subsidiary over there. Their splitter box that they use on that one they will not sell separate from their conversion.

6x6 and portals would be they way I would love to go. To make this go forward I have been doing a lot of research on the paper work side and it is mind blowing. Every change I make to the vehicle has to have an inspection and be approved. Now if I want to throw dollars at a Canter there are a few companies over here that will do it - But me I like to do it myself (don't have the sort of dollars that they want anyway) and will engineer the parts that I need.

Both the Volvo and Pinzgauer 6x6 would be a viable option and could be imported but then parts are not readily available. My hopes would be to use parts that are off the shelf here in Australia and even around the world if it came to that.

All valid suggestions and would not say won't happen,
Dan.

 

[DzlToy]

Move to one of the Southern states in the US where you don't need every weld or bolt signed off by a government bureaucrat, leaving you to build your 6x6 Canter in peace.

Further, you have access to Rockwells with 4.89 gears, HERO transfer cases and a plethora of fab shops in the SW US states. Please do not bring Vegemite.

“The Brit abroad is always the voice of caution. Persons of other cultures are known to be undisciplined, prone to leaning out of car windows and cooking with garlic.”
― Nick Harkaway

 

[dietert]

Dan. My knowledge of what you are trying to do is zero. I see what you are trying to achieve but the technical details are way over my head. Not sure if this is relevant to what you are trying to do here, but I did have a chuckle.

 

[Aussie Iron]

Well what can I say! They certainly are a little larger than what I'm proposing and certainly would have done a lot better if they had lockers or limited slip centres in those diffs.

Dan.

 

[Darryl Roper]

What about a posi-Drive like the early scanias had?