Carb VS EFI

I ran VW campers for years so you know my answer is...EFI, all the way. In fact, my current bike runs EFI...Yamaha WR250R. Turn the key, press the button (without choke or pump priming) and voila! I don't miss fiddling with automatic chokes on cars, etc. Got so fed up with some that I converted to manual chokes! :sombrero:
 

DGarman

What could go wrong?
My preference is for carburetors, but that's mostly because of my truck preference (70s Fords). I've run Holleys on all my trucks over the years, because I'm most familiar with them. Q-jets are good too, I just don't have any experience with them.

Contrary to popular belief, carburetors DO work well off-road, as long as: 1) It is the right carburetor for the application, and 2) It is tuned properly. For the last 6 years I've been running Holley Truck Avengers on my Fords (mostly big blocks). These carbs never blubber, never flood, never die, no matter what angle they are run at in my experience. I've even parked my truck on a 45* angle and let it idle for 20 minutes with no blubbering or flooding.

Before Holley produced the Truck Avenger, I would set up a standard Holley using some off-road racing tricks that would allow it to operate at extreme angles.

I'm not saying that carburetors are "better" than EFI, but they will work off-road. If someone has a carbureted 4X4 that stalls, blubbers, floods, etc., they just don't have the right carburetor or carburetor tune for the application.

Good thread,
Dennis
 

BigAl

Expedition Leader
... I've even parked my truck on a 45* angle and let it idle for 20 minutes with no blubbering or flooding.

What does that do to your oil pressure? My 4.0 is a rear sump and it starves for oil if idlling nose down for too long.
 

98dango

Expedition Leader
Ok so your truck with Carb can sit static and Idle cool deal now add small to medium bumps and fuel sloshing. Welcome to my life I have several carbed rigs and many efi rigs. Yes my carbs work well. But any thing I trust my life to is efi.

cropjeep.jpg[img\]
 

DGarman

What could go wrong?
What does that do to your oil pressure? My 4.0 is a rear sump and it starves for oil if idlling nose down for too long.

That was in my 72 with a 390 and a front sump. The 400 in the Bronco has kind of a center sump so it seems OK pointed up or down.

Dennis
 

DGarman

What could go wrong?
Ok so your truck with Carb can sit static and Idle cool deal now add small to medium bumps and fuel sloshing. Welcome to my life I have several carbed rigs and many efi rigs. Yes my carbs work well. But any thing I trust my life to is efi.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/crleo2003/cropjeep.jpg[img\][/QUOTE]


That was just one example.

I don't get any blubbering or flooding over the bumps, uphill, downhill, off camber, etc. Like I said, I don't necessarily think that carbs are better than EFI, only that they aren't as bad as they are made out to be.

Dennis
 

1911

Expedition Leader
What does that do to your oil pressure? My 4.0 is a rear sump and it starves for oil if idlling nose down for too long.

That is one reason that the F-series engine land Cruisers have sumps that hold more than eight quarts of oil. The oil pump is in about the middle; they will maintain oil pressure at fairly ridiculous rates of incline in any direction.
 

BurbanAZ

Explorer
efi gets my vote also, chevy TBI to be specific. Ive always had good luck with it, simple parts and easy to diagnose. No time spent tuning and tweaking with a carb and no complicated computer diagnostics that come with the newer more complicated fuel injection. I agree it doesnt have the same capability for high hp and tq numbers in stock form and if i were bulding a beast of an engine i may feel different, but for normal power numbers, ease of maint. and reliability id vote TBI every time.
 

78Bronco

Explorer
A carb still has to match engine capabilities the same that the efi system is. You cant just load a 1000cfm double pumper onto a stock 327 and expect twice the power in the same respect that you can not just change your cam in a tbi motor to make 450 hp without upgrading the aspiration. You can install injectors that increase the fuel supply (lbs/hr) and then modify the fuel curve but this all costs money in the end. The same as it cost you money to upgrade the intake manifold, cam, lifters, exhaust and CARB to make your 450 hp. It is for this very reason that I do not mess with motors or have the need for 450 hp. Why would I be in such a hurry? If I did have such a need for these horsies I would not be playing with a gasoline motor...it would be a diesel with mechanical injection and turbo.
 

Balzer

Adventurer
A carb still has to match engine capabilities the same that the efi system is. You cant just load a 1000cfm double pumper onto a stock 327 and expect twice the power in the same respect that you can not just change your cam in a tbi motor to make 450 hp without upgrading the aspiration. You can install injectors that increase the fuel supply (lbs/hr) and then modify the fuel curve but this all costs money in the end. The same as it cost you money to upgrade the intake manifold, cam, lifters, exhaust and CARB to make your 450 hp. It is for this very reason that I do not mess with motors or have the need for 450 hp. Why would I be in such a hurry? If I did have such a need for these horsies I would not be playing with a gasoline motor...it would be a diesel with mechanical injection and turbo.

This is another reason a Q-jet is a great carb. You CAN throw a 850cfm(biggest q-jet I have seen) q-jet on a stock 327 and it will still perform well. In fact I always run the bigblock/corvette q-jets which are 795 CFM and I get people telling me all the time its too much carb. Q-jets have pretty small primarys and variable venturi secondaries. This means you can cruise around on basically a small 2bbl carb then open it up and it will only supply the maximum CFM that the engine can use. Basically the carb will only open as much as the engine can "suck" it open. Where as the other 2 popular carb designs (holly and carter AFB) can actually flood an engine out if they are too big for the application.
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However You are still completely correct. Even a q-jet should be tuned to the application, as with any aspiration on any engine.
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Unfourtunatly I have to disagree with your theory of not needing so much power though. I mean seriously what was the stock HP of your 78 bronco? Late 70's anything was really low power output no matter how it is figured. And here I am going to go into a completely different fuel for my example.
PROPANE or LPG is the fuel I will use to make my point.
Here in the USA it isnt uncommon to see LPG powered slightly older vehicles, its a cheaper alternitive to gasoline.
Now the reason Im using LPG as my example is because its power output. Converting your stock engine to run LPG will give you slightly less power and deliver slightly less MPG. But its much cheaper and a lot cleaner. However LPG responds VERY well to "hot rodding" modifications. It does not detonate as bad as gasoline, in fact LPG is equilivent to 104-105 octane gasoline, This means it can run higher compression. Higher compression means a hotter combustion, which in turn means more fuel is burnt, which means the engine runs more efficiant. In highschool I got in on a LPG only/specific 302 ford build. We actually built that engine with 12.5:1 pistons and with the head work done the engine was somewhere near 13.75:1 compression! Thats drag racing style engine building! It was coupled with a custom ground cam, a single plane weiand intake manifold, and just for giggles we also port matched and polished the heads. Now the kicker was the cam wasn't radical it was actually close to stock but with differnt duration and lobe separation(long explaination so if you dont understand it just pretend you do).
ANYWAY on to the point of the story.
When all was said and done it was put into a 1974 ford f150 4wd short bed pickup 3 speed auto, on 35" tires and ended up getting 21mpg on long trips and had enough power to shred the tires at will. *never dyno'ed but Im guessing well over 400HP* Now this is an alternate fueled engine so honestly comparing it to a gasoline engine is kinda like comparing a gasoline engine to a diesel. Or apples to oranges.
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So when you say you dont need that much horsepower, I say your wrong. You need the most horsepower that makes your engine the most efficiant.
Sorry for the long post and I mean no disrespect.
 

Balzer

Adventurer
I need to point out that I use horsepower because, honestly, thats what most people relate to. But Torque is the real muscle in any engine and is usually my goal when building an engine. A 4BT cummins is only like 140-150hp, but it puts out nearly twice the torque of most smallblock v8's, and thats why it can power a fullsize pickup down the highway at 65mph and still get upper 20's low 30's MPG.
 

lstzephyr

wanderer
But any thing I trust my life to is efi.

QUOTE]

I am almost the opposite. I only trust my life to carbs or mechanical diesels. I actually am very familiar with efi and I know how to fix it. I have a scantool as well as efi tuning programs on my laptop but I just don't like efi.


I've been called a luddite more than once but I like simple stuff because I tend to use things far beyond their limits. Both in time and in abuse I have worn out 90% of the things I own and still used them anyway. Everything I own I expect to have to maintain with limited tools so I choose them with that in mind. Simpler things are easier to fix becuase they just don't have as many parts that could be the problem. I have enough computers to fight with my dive gear and laptop that I don't want another computer in my truck or my bike. I'm not even a fan of starter motors though, I prefer kickstart bikes and single cylinder ones at that. I sold a 2 cylinder efi bike I had because it just had too much crap going on and it annoyed me to maintain it. There are many times I have thought about selling my truck and bike to travel even simpler too. The fact is that I have so many hobbies and interests that I am almost overwhelmed by my own gear and its complexities at times. I try to keep things simple so I can enjoy as many varied expierences with as little hassle as possible.
 
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78Bronco

Explorer
Stock 1978 Ford Bronco 5.7L 351 cu in V8
156 hp @ 4000, 262 lb ft @ 2000 rpm
3 spd Auto or NP435
11 mpg
Top speed 90mph

With 35's it's not winning any races but it gets up and going just fine.

Yes I can dump $3000 into the motor and get 400hp 20mpg

Or I can swap in an EFI 460, ZF for 14mpg max $2000

or I can swap in a 5.4L Triton/6spd Auto and get 20mpg $4000

4BT $5000

7.3psd/ZF $5000

In the end I still have to spend money to save money. My personal favorite is a cheap stock 4.9L 300 cu inch inline six $150/ ZF $400 Cheap, tough, more torque than a big block at 1500-2000 rpms. I will never get a speeding ticket, never burn up my rubber. Just keep going and going and going. I am more interested in torque than HP. You obviously know your stuff but I would never be out in the bush running LPG...barbecue tank, cheater hose PUKE.
 

Balzer

Adventurer
Oh I agree I wont run LPG either. LPG could be cool if it didnt stink and have to have akward tank sizes and limitations. Also I have to admit, I almost NEVER take down a vehicle that is running just fine, to swap in a modified engine. I will almost always wait until something goes wrong with the engine first. You dont see savings for a long time in that respect. But when the engine fails its time to do some work to it because putting another stock engine in is just silly to me.
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I think if I ever get back on my feet finacially, my next engine build will have EFI and forced induction....
 

98dango

Expedition Leader
Oh I agree I wont run LPG either. LPG could be cool if it didnt stink and have to have akward tank sizes and limitations. Also I have to admit, I almost NEVER take down a vehicle that is running just fine, to swap in a modified engine. I will almost always wait until something goes wrong with the engine first. You dont see savings for a long time in that respect. But when the engine fails its time to do some work to it because putting another stock engine in is just silly to me.
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I think if I ever get back on my feet finacially, my next engine build will have EFI and forced induction....


With the way the economey is this may take a while.
 

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