charging deep cycle battery

[4x4junkie]

Solder then crimp you couldn't you physically move/break apart the solder when you crimp?

Yes, exactly.

However soldering an already-crimped connection is no worse than a soldered-only connection. As i said, soldered connections have been very reliable for me where crimped ones have not, so even if soldering did weaken the crimp (which I honestly don't think does), it wouldn't really matter as the solder would then be supporting the connection.

 

[IdaSHO]

If you're going to crimp AND solder, you really should do the crimp first, then solder it.

This has been hashed and rehashed over the years.
While normally I would totally agree that soldering and crimping, or crimping then soldering is overkill,
For the large cables I like overkill, as cables such as my trucks 3/0 battery cables often have 500+ amps running through them.
I refuse to rely on a simple soldered joint in such a large lug due to the potential pull-out failure.


Soldering filled the voids between the lug and the strands, and the voids between the strands.
It creates a metallurgical and mechanical bond.

Once a joint is soldered, how does crimping make that "worse"?

Crimping a joint (properly) shrinks that lug even smaller, compressing the solder and strands tighter.


I prefer the solder first as it allows me to not excessively heat the wire, and not overly cut the insulator.
The lug is filled with solder, molten, and the conductor is inserted.

If I were to crimp first, I would have to heat both wire and lug, as well as strip the wire insulator far enough to allow solder to flow from outside the lug.

 

[IdaSHO]

never had a failure. And again, these are LARGE cables Im talking about.

Cold joint or not (with regards to solder) the crimp creates a cold weld joint and prevents pull out failure.

And as stated, creating a gas tight joint will not allow soldering.

 

[4x4junkie]

Once a joint is soldered, how does crimping make that "worse"?

Crushing the joint breaks those bonds that the solder had created.

Given the way you say you only heat the connector, then insert a (cold???) wire into it, there probably was never even a solder bond taking place at all, so if you've been having "pull out" failures, this (very poor technique) is why.

 

[IdaSHO]

With regards to this thread I got curious, so I did some testing.

I did this years ago to verify my method works, but this thread had even be doubting it.


Test as follows...

Found an old battery cable in the shop. So I lopped one end off of it, and found the correct lug in my electrical drawer.
I think it is a 1/0 cable. Not sure, doesnt really matter.

For the sake of the test, I did as MOST probably would, not knowing any better.

Zero prep. No wire wheel, no flux, no nothing.


here we go...

With lug in the vise, I stripped the cable and test fit.

Satisfied with the fit, I loaded the lug with some solder and added heat.
This continued until the lug was about 3/4 full, and completely molten.

Then the cable was inserted, heat applied for a few more seconds, then heat removed and assembly allowed to cool.

Interested in how the solder interacted with the strands, I pulled hard on the insulator to see.
Its hard to see in the photo, but the solder was bonded to the strands, and looked to go pretty deep into the cable.

After everything was cooled the connector was crimped, using nothing more than a "hammer" type crimper.
I find they work very well with large conductors.

Now, this is where I would normally install the adhesive heat shrink, but instead I cut the joint apart for inspection.

Right at the end of the lug, just about where the conductors ended.
Even though everything is coated in solder, the voids remain. This is why many will drill a small hole into the lug, to allow the solder to flow into this portion.

Although, with the conductor ending right here, I see no harm in not having solder.

Then I cut right thru the crimp joint.

This is what I referred to as "cold welded"

The copper strands, solder, and copper lug are literally 1-piece due to the compression of the crimp.

Then I cut right near the entrance of the lug.

Same story. 100% void free and cold welded.

Thoughts??

I still fail to see the reason to NOT utilize this method.

 

[4x4junkie]

Well, as Verkstad said, if it's working for you, then go ahead and keep on doing it. I just know that i would never disturb a soldered connection by trying to crimp it (I kindof doubt you'll really be able to see the fractured solder bonds by cutting across it with a hacksaw like that, but guaranteed they're there).



FWIW, you left out this important detail from your previous post...

Then the cable was inserted, heat applied for a few more seconds, then heat removed and assembly allowed to cool.

My method actually isn't too real different, except that I continue to apply heat until I can easily flow some additional solder down in between the wire (cable) and the terminal (this distributes additional flux all around the wire strands for much better wetting of the copper by the solder). I then refrain from crushing it afterward.

 

[IdaSHO]

(I kind of doubt you'll really be able to see the fractured solder bonds by cutting across it with a hacksaw like that, but guaranteed they're there).

Still hard to believe that when the crimp is compressing the lug, solder, and copper, all at once.

 

[verdesardog]

Idasho, that solder joint was a disaster! It would not have passed even the least stringent commercial inspection! It was a cold joint pure and simple. Just looking at the uncut photo it is obvious that the wire had cold insufficient bonds with the solder. There was never enough heat or flux on the wire.
.
To properly solder that set up both the connector and wire need to be tinned. Then insert the wire into the terminal and apply heat to the lower part of the connector. Pressing resin core solder between the wire and connector will cause the solder to flow down the wire toward the heat source when it gets hot enough to flow. Fill all voids in the wire and between the terminal producing a small fillet of solder around the rim of the connector (with no solder flowing up into the wire past the end of the connector). DO NOT move the joint until the solder has completely solidified.
.
That is the basic technique for 99% of your soldering jobs. A joint soldered in this manner will have lower resistance than a crimped one and will not be any more prone to vibration damage than a crimped one. And will have as good or better pull out resistance than a crimped connection.

 

[IdaSHO]

easy there chief.

As posted in the post you are very excited about...

For the sake of the test, I did as MOST probably would, not knowing any better.

Zero prep. No wire wheel, no flux, no nothing.

 

[IdaSHO]

More fun coming...

I took a few moments to wet sand and polish one of the cut sections.

interesting findings. I think you will agree. :ylsmoke:

Im just trying to photograph it properly, with... my.... Iphone....:Wow1:

 

[IdaSHO]

Some "cold joint" you speak of.

That solder flowed further and filled better than even I expected.

This cross-section is of the cut nearest the opening to the lug.

Do note that there is a very small amount of void int he very center.
But otherwise, the solder filled very well, and real no voids to report

It is the smallest piece, shown in this photo.
Sanded and polished side is the first cut from left to right.

 

[comptiger5000]

If you're going to crimp and solder, you crimp first, then solder the joint afterwards.

 

[captwoody]

Thanks for all the input, I am leaning to a welding cable for the +pos connection and a short ground. although soldering may be better it is beyond my area of expertise and with my luck I would get a short and fire. Maybe Clark connectors in rear hatch area so I can take it in and out

 

[randy h]

Captainwoody, I drive a 95 Geo Tracker and I added a House Battery to the rear cubby hole as you might be planning. Similar to you, I added the house battery to run a 12 volt fridge/freezer.

My system is pretty much based on evldave's design that 4x4Junky referenced in the second post on this thread. I used a Vmax AGM battery to avoid fumes in the cabin. I purchased 20 foot jumper cables and removed the clamps and installed Lugs I bought at Home Depot.

On the 95 Tracker I was able to route the cable into the cabin through the firewall near passengers feet, then back under the passenger side wire run that goes along inside the door sill. From there I was able to route up behind the side wall by right rear passenger's elbow, and then on back to the cubby hole area. Drilled a hole through the plastic side cover in the cubby area and out to my battery.

My setup is charged by both Car Alternator and a Renogy solar panel that self deploys out from under the roof rack. The solar setup was added after everything was already being charged from Car Alternator, so that is certainly something you can add as a later mod if you wish.

I realize our two vehicles are many years apart and will be quite different, but at least you know there is an older model Tracker out there doing what you may intend. Here is a link that describes some of the setup on another forum.
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki...dding-dual-battery-solar-charger-weekend.html

randy

 

[captwoody]

Thank you Randy, being a fellow tracker owner you know the size limitations