Chasing Demons [LR3 EAS] [Solved - I'm an dolt]

[Ian_Barry]

Good [time of day you're reading this],

I'm caving in and asking for help. I've read through the better part of all the other key forums (but I could have missed something).

For the life of me I cannot figure out what's wrong with my EAS system. Actually, maybe that's a lie - I cannot properly diagnose what's wrong with my truck's EAS, but I've got ideas.

The code I've still got is C1A00-54(AF)

Accepting that the issue may be multiple things I've been tracking down the issues one at a time. So far I have:

• Rebuilt the valve blocks in response to cross link issues (I'll write it up and provide some tips in my build thread when I get around to that - maybe later tonight edit: that's not happening at the moment)
• Replaced all four ride height sensors in response to a single failed sensor (got a better deal on all four - again more on that)
• Reflashed Suspension ECU with GAPTool
• Attempted restoring calibration with GAPTool (many a time)
• Stood around and pleaded with the truck

At this point I'm feeling that the issue is the Air Suspension Control Module. The question I have, is there a good way to diagnose this (beyond what I've done already)? I know the unit is fused (on the unit) so I could try replacing that, but if I'm going to dig into the RH dash/A pillar and end up replacing the unit I'd just take one swipe at it if I can.

Here's an excellent reference file I've saved from some earlier research (probably from Bruce Byer's stash on Disco3)

Thoughts, prayers?

Cheers,

Ian

 

[jymmiejamz]

That is the fault code that is stored when it is set in tight tolerance mode. When did you first start having the issue and what were the events leading up to it?

I don't recall ever seeing a ride level module fail except in the instance of water ingress.

Assuming you can do it with your scan tool, I would recommend putting it into tight tolerance mode and then try taking it out. Even with SDD, the Land Rover factory tool, it doesn't always work. It always works with my Snap On scanner.

 

[iowalr4]

Do you get sane looking values from the sensors in live view? Looks like a failed sensor causes that, but if you replaced them that would be odd.

 

[Ian_Barry]

That is the fault code that is stored when it is set in tight tolerance mode.

That's a really interesting idea; I will test that once I get the truck unpacked from my overnight travel.

When did you first start having the issue and what were the events leading up to it?

Oh man [story time (TL;DR: had the problem too long, many things have happened)]:
I started having the issue an embarrassingly long time ago. The shortest story is that there was nothing happening with the truck and I was driving along and caught a suspension fault. It dropped, so I froze it out in "Build Mode" (GAPTool) and went about my week (I did a few things during the week to ascertain the severity of the issue - testing valves, ability of the truck to hold height, read codes, etc.) . Once I hit the weekend I dove in on it and looking at live values found that one of the sensors was freaking out (inconsistent and fluctuating at level). Figuring that the sensor was the issue I decided to order some parts. Well some time went by, the parts arrived, I put on one sensor (the one I thought had the issue) and the didn't fix it. In fact then I got a new code for a sensor out of range. I decided that I should really have followed the advice of others and replaced opposite corners/all four *I now owned all four sensors*. So I started down that road - what I should have done is checked my work, I put the RF on the LF, so I just needed to use the right part (working at 2am is not advisable - also while you're moving apartments). It's worth noting that I inspected the wiring harness at this time.

Anyway, I moved on from those challenges and set about recalibrating the truck. Calibration wouldn't clear the code, but I have been able to get the truck level (just can't get it to stop bonging on about it's suspension fault). As mentioned parenthetically, I was moving apartments at the time, so with the truck level and working this took a backseat. While the EAS project was in the backseat the rear valve block decided that it would be pro to jam open (cross link) ever so slightly. That got addressed, code still there.

Most recently the DC Metro region got hit by a ton of sky water, and i discovered I needed to clear my drain tubes again. So maybe there's water in the mix now too? Definitely did get some water coming down the A pillar on the [NAS] passenger side.

The only constant is the code.

I don't recall ever seeing a ride level module fail except in the instance of water ingress.

Well that's mostly encouraging - thank you. Any experience with the fusing?

Assuming you can do it with your scan tool, I would recommend putting it into tight tolerance mode and then try taking it out. Even with SDD, the Land Rover factory tool, it doesn't always work. It always works with my Snap On scanner.

I will update once I've attempted.

Thank you again!

Cheers,

Ian

 

[SteveMfr]

Hi Ian,
Jymmie is right - it sounds like you're still in build mode (the results of tight tolerance are similar). You'll need to re-enable the EAS. And ECUs very rarely go bad (not just EAS ECUs).
If you only had an issue with one height sensor, you should have been able to replace that sensor. You don't mention it in your chronology, but did you re-calibrate the EAS immediately following the sensor replacement? The sensors are not standardized with a specific value at a specific position. Production tolerances allow the sensors to vary in output for a given height - sometimes so much so that the EAS throws a DTC almost immediately. This is why there is a re-calibration procedure. If the sensors were standardized there would be no need to re-calibrate.
Give us a shout at support at gap-diagnostic dotcom if you continue to have issues.


@Jymmie: if you do a lot of LR work, you should take a look at the IIDTool. It will do a lot more than a generic system such as Snap-On: reprogramming EAS heights by adding the height in mm, CCF editing, ECU flashing, etc.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[jymmiejamz]

Hi Ian,
Jymmie is right - it sounds like you're still in build mode (the results of tight tolerance are similar). You'll need to re-enable the EAS. And ECUs very rarely go bad (not just EAS ECUs).

I actually just looked up the code and a possible cause is being in manufacturing mode, calibration mode, or tight tolerance mode. I've never run into one in build mode, but this sounds like it is self inflicted by the OP.

If you only had an issue with one height sensor, you should have been able to replace that sensor. You don't mention it in your chronology, but did you re-calibrate the EAS immediately following the sensor replacement? The sensors are not standardized with a specific value at a specific position. Production tolerances allow the sensors to vary in output for a given height - sometimes so much so that the EAS throws a DTC almost immediately. This is why there is a re-calibration procedure. If the sensors were standardized there would be no need to re-calibrate.

While it is true that the sensors are not mode to a very fine tolerance, performing the calibration is rarely required. For as long as I can remember the calibration routine with IDS and SDD has been pretty unreliable. In most cases the calibration takes multiple attempts to complete successfully and there is no more than 1-2mm in height difference. IDS/SDD will not allow calibration to complete if the measurements are outside of the expected range. Replacing a height sensor without calibrating will not likely cause any issues.

@Jymmie: if you do a lot of LR work, you should take a look at the IIDTool. It will do a lot more than a generic system such as Snap-On: reprogramming EAS heights by adding the height in mm, CCF editing, ECU flashing, etc.

Thanks, but I already own an SDD and Snap On Solus. My next diagnostic tool purchase will likely be a Picoscope.

 

[Ian_Barry]

self inflicted by the OP.

Absolutely.

My issue has been largely resolved and the EAS is working properly.

I think that it's worth noting that simply going in and out of "build mode" and doing the calilbrations did not set me back to normal tolerance mode. Only by actually telling it to revert to normal tolerance mode did it clear the code.

The more you know!

Thank you again for the help!

Cheers,

Ian

 

[SteveMfr]

I actually just looked up the code and a possible cause is being in manufacturing mode, calibration mode, or tight tolerance mode. I've never run into one in build mode, but this sounds like it is self inflicted by the OP.

Hi Jymmie,
Build mode = manufacturing mode. We do our best to use only LR terminology, but often it is ambiguous. We then try to use the most common terminology so as to try to keep confusion to a minimum.

While it is true that the sensors are not mode to a very fine tolerance, performing the calibration is rarely required. For as long as I can remember the calibration routine with IDS and SDD has been pretty unreliable. In most cases the calibration takes multiple attempts to complete successfully and there is no more than 1-2mm in height difference. IDS/SDD will not allow calibration to complete if the measurements are outside of the expected range. Replacing a height sensor without calibrating will not likely cause any issues.

Actually, this is not completely true. While the EAS rarely throws a DTC immediately after a sensor replacement w/o a calibration, often the values are out far enough to cause issues down the road. The first sign is often the vehicle "dancing" at traffic lights, etc. as the EAS tries to find a medium between the differing height values. This also causes unnecessary wear on the compressor and leads to a DTC at some point.

Calibration is another advantage of the IIDTool BTW. Much easier and much more reliable - especially if you don't have a pool-table-flat surface to do the calibration on.

Thanks, but I already own an SDD and Snap On Solus. My next diagnostic tool purchase will likely be a Picoscope.

If you're happy, all is good!

The IIDTool is much quicker and easier to use than SDD, though. There is a very active group of LR techs on disco3.co.uk. If you search for IIDTool there you'll find all sorts of positive feedback.



I have a feeling we've somehow gotten off to a bad start. Often techs who work for an OEM (I saw that you are a Maserati tech) are very anti aftermarket. I don't know if it will help, but maybe I can qualify who we are: we started as a small group of LR enthusiasts and have now advanced to the point where we do work directly for LR UK. We've sold thousands of IIDTools - the large majority of which have gone to end users. We are by no means perfect, but we try hard to eliminate mistakes and make our customers happy.

If you are ever interested in trying an IIDTool Pro, give me a shout. I don't mean for this to sound like I'm pressuring you to buy - I'd actually only like to have a chance to redeem ourselves.

 

[SteveMfr]

Absolutely.

My issue has been largely resolved and the EAS is working properly.

I think that it's worth noting that simply going in and out of "build mode" and doing the calilbrations did not set me back to normal tolerance mode. Only by actually telling it to revert to normal tolerance mode did it clear the code.

The more you know!

Thank you again for the help!

Cheers,

Ian

Glad it's working for you!

 

[jymmiejamz]

I think that it's worth noting that simply going in and out of "build mode" and doing the calilbrations did not set me back to normal tolerance mode. Only by actually telling it to revert to normal tolerance mode did it clear the code.

Glad you got it fixed. Do you mean you put it in and out of tight tolerance mode?

I have a feeling we've somehow gotten off to a bad start. Often techs who work for an OEM (I saw that you are a Maserati tech) are very anti aftermarket. I don't know if it will help, but maybe I can qualify who we are: we started as a small group of LR enthusiasts and have now advanced to the point where we do work directly for LR UK. We've sold thousands of IIDTools - the large majority of which have gone to end users. We are by no means perfect, but we try hard to eliminate mistakes and make our customers happy.

If you are ever interested in trying an IIDTool Pro, give me a shout. I don't mean for this to sound like I'm pressuring you to buy - I'd actually only like to have a chance to redeem ourselves.

No bad blood here. I'm not aftermarket at all. Like I said before, SDD will put a vehicle in TTM, but won't take it out. This may have been fixed with an update at some point, but I haven't bothered to try since my Snap On scanner will do it. I don't think that I am limited very much by SDD. Most issues with SDD are with the older models, and I doubt JLR will resolve these issues. I can definitely see the advantage of an aftermarket diagnostic tool.

BTW, I've worked for Land Rover for over 10 years, but switched to Maserati this year. I still work on a lot of Land Rovers since both dealers are in the same building and have the same owner.

 

[SteveMfr]

SDD has its quirks - but you are definitely not limited by it. At least not in functionality. But the IIDTool is much quicker and easier to use.

You would be limited by the IIDTool in regard to older models: we don't do the P38, D2, or pre-Puma (2006>) Defender. Too much development, not enough potential ROI.

 

[Ian_Barry]

Glad you got it fixed. Do you mean you put it in and out of tight tolerance mode?

Thank you.

I was able to just "take it out of tight tolerance mode", but selecting "Normal Tolerance Mode". This is the routine that I normally have to run after setting it into tight tolerance mode; I did not have to explicitly activate tight tolerances to return it to normal operation.

Does that answer your question?

 

[jymmiejamz]

You would be limited by the IIDTool in regard to older models: we don't do the P38, D2, or pre-Puma (2006>) Defender. Too much development, not enough potential ROI.

I forget the older than 2013 isn't old to most people. I was meaning pre-2010. SDD now goes into a legacy mode when you connect to a pre 2010 vehicle (at least I think that is the year cutoff).

I was able to just "take it out of tight tolerance mode", but selecting "Normal Tolerance Mode". This is the routine that I normally have to run after setting it into tight tolerance mode; I did not have to explicitly activate tight tolerances to return it to normal operation.

Does that answer your question?

Yep, that makes sense.