choosing is tough - analysis paralysis

[avidtest]

My spouse and I have been window shopping online for nearly two years - for an off-road couples trailer for us and two dogs. First got interested in a Black Series, but new stuff was always just around the corner. And prices for the new stuff just kept going up. We finally took a look at a new '22' HQ19 today (along with a HQ15 and HQ21). The 19 was the best layout for us. However, I was turned off by the fit and finish. Laminate was already pealing, stank of off-gassing, caulking had cracks. The materials, while looking good from 2-3 feet, just seemed cheap up close (except for the table and counter tops which also looked cheap from far away). And I reckon at least $10K worth of changes/upgrades would be wanted if we purchased - give or take. The buy-in price was acceptable at $50K though. So in today's off-road, solid-top trailer market, it seems to win on price.

Looking at the Dweller 19 online, it seems like there are definitely some improvements over BS, but I have a lot of reservations that there are $30K worth of improvements over the HQ19. And to nitpick, we just don't like the gray/black/white interior. We like to be outdoors, but for the times needing to be spent inside, we want enjoy it.

The Conqueror UEV-19 is another step up on the quality ladder in some ways (from what I can see online), but how could there be $50K worth of benefit, particularly when it still needs cold-weather mods, lithium, more solar, deletion of black tank, change the toilet, and probably a bigger water tank since the black would go away? (Air bags and aluminum cabinets are nice though!).

The Pause XC20.2 looks pretty decent and has a a really great layout, but pricing is yet another level up, as is the weight - plus it's more than we will agree to spend on a trailer. Not to mention, not enough details have been released.

Kimberly S-Class? Looks amazing, and surely worth a premium, but how much? Probably not that much for us. (Plus only single-axle, small fridge, and maybe a bit less storage/living space). T-Class? Luxury! (but alas, WAY more than we will spend).

Xplore? No outdoor kitchen is a negative, and that price problem again..

ROA Roamer? Too much $$.

Some background

• We probably won't be headed to the gnarliest off-road, hardest places to get to.
• We will spend time in CA state campgrounds (which have size limits), and plan to boondock or be in a campground wherever there are good mountain bike trails (which usually means there are campgrounds nearby). And we will go to areas with good fishing.
• Don't want a black tank.
• Prefer a rig that has an outdoor kitchen, and ideally, a small indoor kitchen. But I believe we'll have to be open to an indoor-only kitchen.

Did I just talk myself into an Oliver Elite II?

Don't mind me - just thinking out loud on a public forum. ?

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Which one costs more?

 

[avidtest]

They're all more than the HQ19. And they all appear to have varying degrees of higher quality.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Hello avidtest- great write up on what your needs are. I am going to digest and give you my LAO on a trailer that may work for you.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Two question how long are you willing to wait for a new trailer and I assume you are not considering pop-up s?

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Kingdom Camping is one to consider. They are coming out with a dual axel model. Call Jamin as he may be able to build a somewhat customized to your needs rig.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Correct me if I am wrong. As well built as Oliver's are they are built with a lot of wood. I know you mentioned light off road use but solid torsion axel are not quite as hip as say cruise master ATX that KingdomCamping is specing. In fact I feel like you guys are to young and hip for an Oliver. They seem more suitable to old 61 year Olds like me.

Hey if your ever in Park City UT give me a shout out. We are known for skiing but more new single track then any MTB town that I have ever been to.

Still trying to think of other trailers you might consider.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

This may sound crazy and it has been like forever getting to market and they are a pavement princess but interesting is the Vast by Sylvansport.

 

[avidtest]

^^^^Fantastic. Thank you. The wood part I'm not sure about. I thought there was no wood in an Oliver. Don't quote me though. But if true that it's wood-less, that's a solid selling point (as is resale value if we find something more fitting in the future).

The suspension is a concern, but since the primary need for us would probably be the ability to survive washboard (6.0 Richter?). From what I see, Oliver is unlikely to rattle apart, although I haven't seen one in person. I did not have that confidence in what I saw on the BS. Beyond that, I doubt we'd go too gnarly on the off-road stuff as often depicted on youtube.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Just watched a vid on 2023 Oliver. Oops I did not see any wood. They are a nice trailer. They do have black tank

 

[rehammer81]

avidtest, you and I think exactly alike and are in the exact same boat with respect to the trailer hunt. I have been researching and watching the market for several years now. I haven't quite been in a place to pull the trigger though so I have had time to obsess. I'm now getting closer to wanting to make a decision and the choice is really hard for all the reasons you mentioned.

I too really struggle to accept the huge price jumps as you step up to Dweller, Conqueror, Kimberley and Xplore. The other thing I have spent more time thinking about is the Australian models handling the wide variety of North America climates throughout the year. I too am a mountain biker and love the mountains. Home is also southern AZ and while we would always likely try to escape the worst heat, even the nearby mountains can get pretty warm in the summer. So I have grown to desire a better insulated rig with the ability control the internal climate and stay functional through cold and hot. That being said, I won't be camping in -40*F. If it can handle down into the 20's or maybe the teens I should be good.

Up until recently I have shied away from the idea of a pop top. Recently I have revisited looking at the Boreas EOS-12. When it gets really cold or hot you could easily manage with the top closed while sleeping or just sitting around. I think I could easily fabricate a simple indoor counter/cabinet/drawer/sink setup where the shorter bench seat is on the left side. The cassette toilet would be easy to convert to a composting or dry flush. The sales guy at Boreas even said it might be possible to just option the toilet out of the build process. I'm not in love with the east/west bed but so far there is no perfect option that gives me the north/south bed. The EOS-12 comes standard with a healthy lithium power bank, Victron power and solar components, a nice outdoor kitchen, 270* awning, Cruisemaster air suspension, and pretty good insulation with all water lines internal and heated water tank. They claim 4 season use. Again, the Boreas is not cheap by any means and I would find myself "upgrading" a new trailer to fit my ultimate desires.

I'm going to go take a look up in Pueblo, CO next time I go visit family in NM.

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[avidtest]

Thanks rehammer81. That EOS-12 has a lot going for it. For various reasons, we've decided that a pop-up is not for us.

One you may want to look at if you have not, are the popups from Reconn. They appear well thought out. They're an Aussie design, so you have to be comfortable with the door and kitchen being on the driver's side (awkward if you're in a tight campground). And they're made in China. The kitchen setup is pretty darned nice. It's been a while since I was looking at them, so I do not recall which systems would benefit from an upgrade. I spoke with Trevor from www.overlandingnorthamerica.com a while back. Seemed like a straight-shooter and I'd have been happy to work with him if the rigs had been a better fit for us.

One other thing I forgot to mention earlier which has a bearing on our decision; we often have groups of friends and family come out to stay with us, but then run short on sleeping quarters. A trailer would serve a dual-purpose as an ADU (Accessory Dwelling Unit), so more folks would have a pleasant place to sleep while they're at our property. That is a reason we would prefer something with a nice pleasant interior space. The multi-purpose helps take some of the sting out of the cost.

 

[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

Huge fan of the Boreas eos12. Another pop up that is very well built is the Arkto out of Canada.

Any thoughts on Kingdom Camping?

Seems like it could check all your boxes:

Off Road capable
Toilet you want
Duel axel
Nice indoor living
Well insulated
Outdoor kitchen possibly
Reasonably priced
No wood
Fairly light
Customizable

To be frank they are a newer company but if Treefarmer has faith in them that is a good sign.
They are building one to live in full time and are a great source of knowledge on trailers

 

[rehammer81]

I have looked at the Reconn trailers. They do have a lot of cool features. I just have literally never heard of anyone out there actually buying one. I also assume you will end having to pay the import costs which drive the Aussie rigs price up even further. That's one of the big issues with Kimberley for me because I have always really liked their Karavan.

The Kingdom Camping rig Treefarmer is getting built definitely has me intrigued. I'm watching their progress closely.

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[Obsessed2findARuggedHybid]

I second those concerns on Recon.

Arkto actually passes the exchange rate on to US customers. Not sure that Reconn or Kimberly do.
Plus the are better built in North America.