Clutch’s deep thoughts thread...

[Clutch]

So, how poor is the ride of the OME compared to the SAWs you replaced?

I have the 2.5 SAWs w/700# springs which are leaking and need to be rebuilt.

I can barely tell the difference. The OME's ride quite nice.

SAW was bought out, couldn't get parts there for awhile. But there is a master rebuild kit now.

https://swayawayshocks.com/products/product-detail/id/DNCN_56000-SP01/name/2-5-master-rebuild-kit

At one time I was going to do a 700 spring, with barely any preload...my thought it would ride smoother than a cranked down 650 to get 2.5" lift, but never got around to it.

 

[Clutch]

Dang, 700 lb/in springs on a 1st gen Taco? That's got to be harsh. The highest rate spring OME suggests is 660 lb/in, the 2886, which is for +100 kg over stock.

For the 1st gen they are rated at 500 lbs for the 880, 881, & 882. The 883's are 590, which I "think" are the heaviest you can go for the 1st gens from OME.

Here are some references:
https://wheelersoffroad.com/c-13460...-prerunner-6-lug-suspension-coil-springs.html

Had 650's on my SAW's is why I went with the 882's at first assuming they wouldn't be enough, which ended up being too much. The 881's feel very similar to the 650 SAW's. Sooooo with that, seems like weight rating varies a bit between manufacture.

Coil is wrapped tighter on the OME, so maybe that is it?

 

[DaveInDenver]

I was looking at it incorrectly. The 2886 is for 2nd gen Tacoma.

The 2881 is the recommended 98-04 for +51 to +100 kg over stock.

That is 375 mm long, 10.2 turns of 16mm wire and is 500 lb/in. The lower 0 to 50 kg spring is the 2880 and is still 500 lb/in but is 365 mm long.

The 2882 is 500 lb/in but is 395 mm long and 2883 is 590 lb/in, but 375 mm long. Both the 2882 and 2883 are 16.5 mm wire. The 2882 being 11.1 turns and 2883 is 9.75 turns.

Those 650 lb/in coils look much smaller than the King I have and I think 3 fewer turns. Spring rate isn't magic, just a function of wire diameter, O.D., number of turns and material. Smaller diameter or fewer turns must be compensated for in material if the rate is the same.

1st gen to 2nd gen isn't necessarily equal, I don't know that the geometry is the same. If the coil overs are mounted at different angles or the lower control arms are significantly different lengths and the mounting are the same would change what rate is needed. So it's not a comparison of 1st to 2nd gen. It just seemed that 700 lb/in is pretty high for a 1st gen. It seems high to me on 2nd gen, too.

 

[Clutch]

1st gen to 2nd gen isn't necessarily equal, I don't know that the geometry is the same. If the coil overs are mounted at different angles or the lower control arms are significantly different lengths and the mounting are the same would change what rate is needed. So it's not a comparison of 1st to 2nd gen. It just seemed that 700 lb/in is pretty high for a 1st gen. It seems high to me on 2nd gen, too.

700 does seem high, but on the other end of the spectrum. 500 lbs spring rate of the OME's sure didn't seem like it would nearly enough after running 650's, but the lift and ride are pretty dang close.

 

[DaveInDenver]

700 does seem high, but on the other end of the spectrum. 500 lbs spring rate of the OME's sure didn't seem like it would nearly enough after running 650's, but the lift and ride are pretty dang close.

You have to know the uncompressed and compressed lengths to make a comparison. The rate on most springs is linear (notably TRD springs like came stock on my truck are progressive and whole different PITA). So it's 500 lbs to compress an inch, then another 500 lbs to get the next inch, etc. The OME coils are usually long, so say they start at 15" and you compressed them to 11" that's taken 2,000 lbs of force. If your 14" 650 lb/in springs are compressed to 11" that 1,950 lbs of force, so the ride height will be the same. The OME should feel a little softer riding, but there's too many variables to say for sure. Shock valving plays a major part here.

What I've figured is I have an ARB bull bar (say +90 lbs over stock), XD9000 winch with synthetic line (call it 65 lbs), two PC1400 batteries in place of the original group 27 (say +35 lbs over stock) and bolt-on Mobtown sliders (I dunno, 100 lbs for the pair?) and a 3/16" Pelfreybilt front skid at 65 lbs. I sit at roughly 23" from hub center to fender lip, which is about 2.5" of lift. I've gone up about 120 lb/in in spring rate over the OE coils (but being progressive isn't apples to apples).

So call it about 305 lbs over stock on the front axle, 255 lbs hung over or in front of it and 50 lbs behind (assuming the sliders are about centered between axles). With this I feel the 14" long 650# is about right. My springs are compressed to approximately 10.5" (3.5" compression) on the driver's and 10.875" (3.125" compression) on passenger. That represents 2,275 lbs on driver and 2,031 lbs on passenger. Which is about right when you figure the fuel tank and batteries are on that side. Just based on impromptu weighing this jives with a control arm force ratio of about 0.6 since my front axle weight sits at ~2,600 lbs.

 

[Clutch]

@DaveInDenver Thanks for the information.

Would even say the OME's feel ever so slightly stiffer, but they are brand new, while the SAW's had roughly 290K miles on them. There is so little difference, has me thinking should of went with OME from the get go all those years ago.

Still have the SAW's can't decide whether to rebuild and keep them as a backup. Or sell them. Might even buy another 1st gen...as it seems that is era of Toyota that I like the best, could save them for if/when I do that. The better half has been saying she wants her own Tacoma. Maybe get a DCSB for her...since she absolutely refuses to drive a Suby...

 

[tacollie]

When I put OME on my trucks I always think I should have gotten something fancier. Whenever I get something fancier I think I wanyted my money and should have stuck with OME. For the value it's hard to beat OME. I split the difference and got a 2.0 coilovers this time. So far they have been good but I don't have a lot of weight on the front of my truck either.

 

[DaveInDenver]

One of the reasons I didn't go with OME is being able to rebuild shocks instead of throw them away each time. But in hindsight it's less of a pain to drill a hole to drain the oil and toss them in scrap steel than rebuilding the FOX anyway.

 

[Clutch]

One of the reasons I didn't go with OME is being able to rebuild shocks instead of throw them away each time. But in hindsight it's less of a pain to drill a hole to drain the oil and toss them in scrap steel than rebuilding the FOX anyway.

When I put OME on my trucks I always think I should have gotten something fancier. Whenever I get something fancier I think I wanyted my money and should have stuck with OME. For the value it's hard to beat OME. I split the difference and got a 2.0 coilovers this time. So far they have been good but I don't have a lot of weight on the front of my truck either.

I have rebuilt my SAW's twice so far...this go around, I am over it, why went with OME's. Was nice just to slap brand new struts in there, even if I had to do the springs twice. Which got me thinking...should of went with them the first time. Oh well, live and learn.

There is that whole thing of trying to find the "right" setup...and be cheap. Cheap usually wins. If I were rich... would probably experiment with tons and tons of different setups. One Tacoma with a Super Charged 3.4, another with a diesel, and another with a LS. Do one with OME, another mid travel...another long travel....linked vs. leaf...etc...probaly be never ending all of the different setups you could do. Good thing I don't have money to burn.


Was looking at a diesel swap recently on TW...man, what huge pain in the ass that thing was. Ahhh....yeah I 'll stay away from that.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/anothernords-jdm-1kz-te-diesel-swap-2001-tacoma-3-4.460113/

Sounds cool though!

 

[bkg]

so... .since this thread is a bit of a catchall... I'm sincerely thinking about selling my xtra cab... Don't even want to think about how much is in it. Darned thing has less than 46k original miles... just doesn't get used enough.

 

[DaveInDenver]

so... .since this thread is a bit of a catchall... I'm sincerely thinking about selling my xtra cab... Don't even want to think about how much is in it. Darned thing has less than 46k original miles... just doesn't get used enough.

Deets!

 

[Clutch]

so... .since this thread is a bit of a catchall... I'm sincerely thinking about selling my xtra cab... Don't even want to think about how much is in it. Darned thing has less than 46k original miles... just doesn't get used enough.

Dang! sitting on a pile of gold right there.


If you haven't seen it.

https://expeditionportal.com/expedition-portal-classifieds-2004-tacoma-at-habitat/

 

[bkg]

Deets!

Ooof… going to take a while to type that up.

Originally built by All-Pro
04 xcab. V6, AT, Supercharded, Split-second, 7th injector, etc. <46K original miles
Marlin R10 adapter, 2.28 front, stock electronic case in rear.
(5) - 37" Hankook MT's on walker-evan's beadlock wheels

Rear:
Diamond full floater w/ 3.5" axe tubes
5.29, factory elocker
1st gen front disk brakes
3" all-pro springs, 1" shackles, Walker Evans adjustable shocks

Front:
Currie Hybrid front axle
5.29's, ARB, Hi-pinion FJ80 diff
Dana 60 outters, Super-Duty Unit-bearings, Drilled for 6x5.5
Currie JK brake kit (13" rotors) w/ Dodge calipers, Warn Hubs
62" WMS to WMS
4WU 3-link w/ 14" Radflo shocks, air bumps - installed by Addicted Offroad

Bed bobbed 12"
Line-x
Toolbox
hi-lift mount
spare tire mount
cut fenders

Addicted Off-Road front bumper w/ Warn 9k winch
135 watts of 9" LED lights
custom radiator skid
Custom 2.5" exhaust to get around rear anti-wrap bar
All-Pro chromoly sliders and rear bumper
TG tcase mount/skid
Tom Woods front shaft

ARB Compressor
CAI and aftermarket washer tank to fit shock mounts
hydro-assist
new seats
Pioneer Avic head unit
Hidden amp/subwoofer
backup camera
dozens of pounds of sound deadening
Boost, transmission and other gauges
Both cup holders work!

Other....
Been in 3 magazines and one Mtn Dew campaign (figger that increases the price by 25%).
Owned since 35K miles
All fluids are Amsoil except transmission - was flushed at 36K miles
trans and steering coolers
Could really use a custom tuning session - still tuned for sea level
two dents (sorry)

Needs:
It will eventually need front axle seals - weeping a bit
Will eventually need paint - it's been painted at least once post-bed bob and the front fenders need some attention
Currently sitting at 22.5" to bottom of frame. Really needs to be 2" taller to let the suspension work better, but I like it low.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/1406-2004-toyota-tacoma-retired-pro/

 

[Clutch]

@bkg ....automatic!?

Might have to kick you out of your own thread for that! "Report"

 

[Clutch]

Seems fitting for this thread...(or any thread I post in )