CNG conversion
- Thread starter MoGas
- Start date
Super Doody
Explorer
I work for a utility company and we have many thousands of CNG vehicles in our fleet. The biggest challenge with CNG beside finding the filling station is the space needed for a CNG tank. For sedans like civics and camrys, it usually takes up about 80% of the trunk. Depending on the type of filling low or high pressure, the range for these sedans is only about 200 to 230 miles per tank.
You can buy a in home filling unit which hooks up to your gas line but its a alittle pricey and it takes > 4 hrs to fill up.
The advantage is its cheaper than gasoline and its cleaner. A lot of our CNG has diamond sticker for car pool use.
You can buy a in home filling unit which hooks up to your gas line but its a alittle pricey and it takes > 4 hrs to fill up.
The advantage is its cheaper than gasoline and its cleaner. A lot of our CNG has diamond sticker for car pool use.
MoGas
Central Scrutinizer
My wife works for the local gas company, so I wouldn't be able to add a pump station on the sly without all the red tape. I perused some conversion sites and it seems the kit is 1500-2000 dollars, the pump station has a monthly fee to have, you still have to pay use tax, and at 12 MPG on petrol, It isn't a real feasible item. I could fly to Australia, visit a few auto breakers, ship home a pallet of OZ goodness, and have an even more kickaz truck for the initial investment of the conversion kit(2k), installation (~1500), permits and piping at home for a fueling station (2500?) and probably another 500 in "oh by the way" items.
Now if I could find a CNG Camry or something....
Now if I could find a CNG Camry or something....
juicebox
Adventurer
I have been wanting to convert my truck to CNG for some time now, I think it would be cool to have the CNG for 95% of my driving, and then have my normal fuel tank in my tacoma for long range trips. Here in utah CNG is pretty cheap and is gaining popularity, so I hope that it doesn't get exploited and then get expensive.
I hope to have my tacoma converted by this time next year.
I hope to have my tacoma converted by this time next year.
Nice thread, as CNG/NGV is gaining popularity over in Asia as well. Chevy is actually celling a dual fuel diesel-CNG truck from the factory, very tempting but only in 2wd for now. But the retrofit is supposedly straightforward :sombrero: .
How wide spread is CNG on the national level in the US? Can you find atleast a few stations in major cities and along the highway, or is it more of a regional thing?
Finally, with regards to the home filling stations mentioned above, can someone post a link or give the rest of us a bit more info? Thanks in advance!
How wide spread is CNG on the national level in the US? Can you find atleast a few stations in major cities and along the highway, or is it more of a regional thing?
Finally, with regards to the home filling stations mentioned above, can someone post a link or give the rest of us a bit more info? Thanks in advance!
MoGas
Central Scrutinizer
Here is a neat one, most people could have it plumbed in and not have the government know. I can't do that because my wife works for the gas utility and we have to keep everything above board. So I would have to have it registered for road tax purposes and permits through the city and everything else.
S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
77blazerchalet
Former Chalet owner
Propane (LPG) conversions are another alternative to consider, a bit different different than CNG. The Ford Econoline airport shuttle vans I drove for 6 years were pure propane. We beat those poor things to death, yet the engines held together very well and the mechanic always showed us how clean the engines were when he tore them down. I forget how many multiple hundred thousand miles each one had on it. Kinda annoying to refuel them when the weather got cold though, the 'overfill preventer vapor valve things' liked to freeze open.
Mo Gas, thank you for the info, that site had some great links to other pages as well!
77Blazer - I hadn't realized there were any recent propane vehicles offered by manufacturers here. Its crazy how much more common diesel, propane, and natural gas are OUTSIDE of the US :violent-smiley-031: . I hope to see more of the above popping up here on Expedition Portal!
77Blazer - I hadn't realized there were any recent propane vehicles offered by manufacturers here. Its crazy how much more common diesel, propane, and natural gas are OUTSIDE of the US :violent-smiley-031: . I hope to see more of the above popping up here on Expedition Portal!
77blazerchalet
Former Chalet owner
Two lightning quick googled links for LPG: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/vehicles/conversions.html
http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=623
Don't know who did the conversions for the vans I drove back in the late '80s - early '90s. I think LPG for fleet vehicles is most popular because the facilities can have a huge on-site refueling tank, while CNG-supplied houses can have home refueling, if whatever 'powers that be' approve such things. No doubt other experts can contrast the two fuels to say which is better.
http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=623
Don't know who did the conversions for the vans I drove back in the late '80s - early '90s. I think LPG for fleet vehicles is most popular because the facilities can have a huge on-site refueling tank, while CNG-supplied houses can have home refueling, if whatever 'powers that be' approve such things. No doubt other experts can contrast the two fuels to say which is better.
allthatremains03
New member
I am actually very interested in a dual-fuel setup as well. These are being widely used in South America, as is LPG in Europe. Kits from South America are not that expensive. It's the regulation here in the US that is the problem. As you can see from the map of my area below, there are plenty of places to fill up. And many of them are almost half of what petroleum is.
Jay Leno's garage has some videos on Phil, and the Honda Civic.
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_player.shtml?vid=193319
Hope this helps! Perhaps someone here will try it and report back. Or if there's someone in South America who can give us some better info.
Forgot to mention: Look up Galileo, they are a large company in South America, and you might even find some of their kits on ebay.
Below is what I recently posted on another forum:
According to my research, the high cost here in the US is due to Federal regulations. There are conversions available for much less than $14k, however each kit has to pass a certification by the EPA for every model and even variant it will be used in. Therefore a kit manufacture would have to pony up for each type of car they want it to be "certified" for. It costs $50,000 a piece. Our taxes are spent out the nose to subsidize corn for ethanol, and yet they won't lower the price of the "certification" for a much better alternative. The waste management vehicles in my city run on CNG. What's good for the goose is apparantly not good for the rest of us. It is reportedly safer than gasoline, and if they wanted to research it, they would. Some states have moved ahead with friendly environments, but our central government has not.
Also from my research, there are many countries in Europe and South America which use LPG or CNG with great success. The Galileo kit works on a variety of vehicles, including Toyota, and is reported to work well. CNG Outfitters in Utah does conversions and has a video or two. I am not associated in any way, but was considering making a trip up there to get mine done. Time and money will tell.
At this point the only converted engines allowed are from GM and Ford. There is a heavy penalty for being caught with an "uncertified" kit, even if it passes emmission tests, so be aware!
Here is a google map of CNG stations:
http://www.cngprices.com/index.php?location=92649&lat=33.721051&lng=-118.047883
This is an email response I recieved a few days ago from BAF, a company that does fleet conversions here in the US:
Jay Leno's garage has some videos on Phil, and the Honda Civic.
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_player.shtml?vid=193319
Hope this helps! Perhaps someone here will try it and report back. Or if there's someone in South America who can give us some better info.
Forgot to mention: Look up Galileo, they are a large company in South America, and you might even find some of their kits on ebay.
Below is what I recently posted on another forum:
According to my research, the high cost here in the US is due to Federal regulations. There are conversions available for much less than $14k, however each kit has to pass a certification by the EPA for every model and even variant it will be used in. Therefore a kit manufacture would have to pony up for each type of car they want it to be "certified" for. It costs $50,000 a piece. Our taxes are spent out the nose to subsidize corn for ethanol, and yet they won't lower the price of the "certification" for a much better alternative. The waste management vehicles in my city run on CNG. What's good for the goose is apparantly not good for the rest of us. It is reportedly safer than gasoline, and if they wanted to research it, they would. Some states have moved ahead with friendly environments, but our central government has not.
Also from my research, there are many countries in Europe and South America which use LPG or CNG with great success. The Galileo kit works on a variety of vehicles, including Toyota, and is reported to work well. CNG Outfitters in Utah does conversions and has a video or two. I am not associated in any way, but was considering making a trip up there to get mine done. Time and money will tell.
At this point the only converted engines allowed are from GM and Ford. There is a heavy penalty for being caught with an "uncertified" kit, even if it passes emmission tests, so be aware!
Here is a google map of CNG stations:
http://www.cngprices.com/index.php?location=92649&lat=33.721051&lng=-118.047883
This is an email response I recieved a few days ago from BAF, a company that does fleet conversions here in the US:
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The EPA rates the CNG-powered Honda Civic GX to be slightly less fuel efficient than the equivalent Civic with gasoline engine. But because of the difference in cost of the two fuels, the EPA says you can travel a given distance in the GX for about half the cost of the standard Civic.
The word is out about Honda CNG vehicles. Used prices are $4000 to $5000 more than a gasoline engine vehicle with similar miles. Here are a few listings from Craigslist.org.
1999 Honda Civic GX 98,000 miles - $8900
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/834646356.html
2008 Honda Civic GX new - $30,000
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/833396390.html
2001 Honda Civic GX CNG 80,000 miles - $12500
saltlakecity.craigslist.org/cto/834596844.html
1998 Honda Civic GX 56,000 miles - $13,250
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/825265339.html
1998 Honda Civic GX 71,000 miles - $12,500
http://provo.craigslist.org/ctd/802689260.html
The word is out about Honda CNG vehicles. Used prices are $4000 to $5000 more than a gasoline engine vehicle with similar miles. Here are a few listings from Craigslist.org.
1999 Honda Civic GX 98,000 miles - $8900
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/834646356.html
2008 Honda Civic GX new - $30,000
http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/833396390.html
2001 Honda Civic GX CNG 80,000 miles - $12500
saltlakecity.craigslist.org/cto/834596844.html
1998 Honda Civic GX 56,000 miles - $13,250
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ctd/825265339.html
1998 Honda Civic GX 71,000 miles - $12,500
http://provo.craigslist.org/ctd/802689260.html