COLORADO CAMPER VAN LLC-**Do business at your own risk**

[tequilasunset]

COLORADO CAMPER VAN

Well... I should have heeded the warning about their work, and Derek's customer service or lack there of... Derek for the most part passes stuff off as acceptable, and even insinuated I did something to the top.

I drove through 5 states to get there, paid for a flight back home and a return flight to pick up the van... some 2,200 miles driving and expense... for this crap!

I feel for his new sale mgr Matt... the poor guy has no power and every time Derek does responds he just makes things worse... condescending, excuse riddled responses, and simply does not fully read/absorb what I said in emails to Matt.

The quality of the work is sub-par to say the least, the finish quality of the top sucks, the excuses are epic and way more effort put into them then truly addressing the problems and willing to make it all right.

Here is a short list of stuff I have issue with...

• Gel coat finish damaged in multiple locations
  Possible crack in top
  Top closes and opens crooked
  Top is off centered and drivers door hit rubber, and withing days put a hole in the rubber lip
  Bolt on scissor action is auguring out on the passenger side
  Bolt on drivers side starting to do the same
  Scissor action hitting/rubbing on drivers side up top against a section they made to hide the mounting (I assume that what the dropped down box is)
  Dome lights between driver/passenger seats no longer work
  Carpet already coming off
  Carpet cut short near latch, plywood exposed

There are a few more things but this is enough for one pass... it paints the warning everyone should heed.


So lets start with the finish of the top... photos of the gelcoats cracks/chips/flawed mold... let me know if you think this is acceptable?
BTW... Derek feels all of these can just be wet sanded... I differ...









The photo below is yet one more damage location with a ridge line that looks like a crack, Derek says that is part of the mold and not a crack... well, wouldn't one fix it then? Wait until you read one of his excuses.





From Derek spelling errors and all...

The raised hairline crack is also cosmetic as the crack is in the gelcoat of the mold not your top so the line gets transfered over to the top. We will not replace it with another new top, the top you got is a "new top". New is relative, your van is a van that has not been produced for 11 years and finding someone that is going to make a "new" mold for a van that is 11plus years old van because it has a couple cosmostic blemishis, is not going to happen. These molds cost over 10k per van and selling 3 or 4 astro van tops a year does not give us enough reason to spend that kind of money on a mold so that astros have a flawless top. So we are stuck using existing molds for old vans and spending our time and energy focusing on molds for new vans.

So Derek knows this is in the gel of the mold without looking at it... but claims to know it existed but did not tell me?
So am I wrong at being mad about his response? I am a red headed step child and I should not expect flawless work because my van is old... and that "NEW" is relative?


Here is a link to the video I shot of the passenger side bolt auguring on the scissor unit.


You can see how the top does not rise or lower until tension is created. How long do you think this bolt will last like this? The drivers side was not doing it and sadly it has started now too. In regard to the top not closing/opening even... here is Derek's response...

The top will close and open uneven there is nothing to syncronize the two motors this has Zero affect on the performance of the top. We do have a way to syncronize them but it is sort of costly and most people do not want to pay the 2500$ price tag.

WHAT? Derek says... there is nothing to synchronize... then Derek says "We have a way to synchronize but it will cost me $2500? So he wants to charge me more money to fix a problem?

But wait... there's more............

If you want "and are willing to pay" that kind of accuracy I would be happy to supply it. so far your the first person that this has been an issue with.

So....... if I am the first person then you wouldn't have this option in place.... how could anyone have not wanted to pay that price as previously mentioned if I am the first person to complain about it??!!.... and if I want accuracy there is an additional charge?
Derek's integrity seems to have been exposed here...



So lets show how the top does not line up and closes/opens crooked (I say it is because of the bolt that is auguring out) and the scissor action not being centered (AKA top is not centered)
Photo of of the drivers and passenger side, the drivers side is dead tight against the frame/felt (the same side that overlaps the drivers door) Had the top been mounted on the scissor action slightly towards the passenger side this problem would probably not exist... there is clearance on the passenger side scissor action.


Looking up at drivers side...





Looking up at passenger side...











Comparison of drivers door opening on left, closing on right




So what do you think of that?


Derek blames the adjustable latches that close it... if that were even the case (which it isn't by a long shot) Why was it that way at his shop?
Photo at his shop... look closely at the drivers door, the lip is over the top of the door, the same way it is now.

If you overtighten the latches it will cause the seal to interfere with he door when it left here we had it adjusted correctly and it was fitting nice

Seems Derek is speaking yet another untruth...
For starters Derek never even came out to greet or thank me... probably WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY to busy with his van that he is building in the back of the shop. I wonder if any of this would be acceptable on his van? Hmmmmm




Here's the hole the drivers door corner has already created...






So moving on to the carpet/felt (or what ever ya call it) installation... Honestly, I expected a better install than that.







So in regard to my dome lights not working... in fairness Derek did say he would pay to have it fixed... but his first response to the situation was just yet another irritation, AKA start with excuses... customers don't want to hear WHY it happened first, seriously. ADMIT it is unacceptable first... and what are the odds BOTH light bulbs go out for the drivers and passengers side? Just slinging to see what sticks... maybe I am getting too nit picky, but it's just one irritation piling on top of another.

dome light not working most likely it is either a bulb or the wire did not get hooked back to the light when it was reinstalled

So bottom line... Derek says he will pay to have the top wet-sanded, carpet glued and the dome light fixed... that doesn't even come close to fixing this crap.


I am bummed beyond words... this has been a perfect storm of a cluster ******K

 

[Pntyrmvr]

Love to hear Derek's side of this. Derek?


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."

 

[philos]

Bummer indeed. Hope you get it sorted.


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[Stroverlander]

Tequila, that is indeed a big bummer. I know how excited you were to get the CCV poptop installed on your van. Seeing this really throws a monkey wrench in my plans to have a CCV poptop installed...

You know, after seeing all the issues with your Colorado Camper Vans CCV poptop, I think in a situation like this it's probably best to find another source to inspect and provide a repair quote for these issues and then seek compensation from CCV. I can say from experience that when you encounter folks who don't want to admit to any problems and/or deal with issues like this realistically, there is almost no point in having them touch the vehicle again. Usually, you tend to get even further substandard work on a comeback in situations like this. Not that it appears you were going to travel back there again.

I know you spent good money at CCV to have a poptop installed on your van and had much higher expectations as to the quality and workmanship of their product. It kind of makes me mad reading this!

It's also really disappointing to read the excuses about the "crack" in the mold and that because the Astro / Safari is 11+ years old now and not worth anything so it is acceptable. I doubt if the the mold is cracked (and not your poptop) that they are telling customers this ahead of time: "Oh, and by the way, you'll have a poptop with what looks like a crack in it because our mold is junk, but that's what you get for spending 6K plus on a poptop for an 11+ year old van that isn't worth our time to install a poptop on anyway you dummy customer!"

Every Astro / Safari owner that I've spoken with that had a CCV poptop installed has mentioned Derek's (limited) people skills.

Did you pay with credit card? If so, perhaps that could provide some benefit/pressure for CCV to resolve this to your satisfaction.

Best of luck.

 

[tequilasunset]

Bummer indeed. Hope you get it sorted.


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Thanks Philos... I'm feeling pretty gutted right now.

Tequila, that is indeed a big bummer. I know how excited you were to get the CCV poptop installed on your van. Seeing this really throws a monkey wrench in my plans to have a CCV poptop installed...

You know, after seeing all the issues with your Colorado Camper Vans CCV poptop, I think in a situation like this it's probably best to find another source to inspect and provide a repair quote for these issues and then seek compensation from CCV. I can say from experience that when you encounter folks who don't want to admit to any problems and/or deal with issues like this realistically, there is almost no point in having them touch the vehicle again. Usually, you tend to get even further substandard work on a comeback in situations like this. Not that it appears you were going to travel back there again.

I know you spent good money at CCV to have a poptop installed on your van and had much higher expectations as to the quality and workmanship of their product. It kind of makes me mad reading this!

It's also really disappointing to read the excuses about the "crack" in the mold and that because the Astro / Safari is 11+ years old now and not worth anything so it is acceptable. I doubt if the the mold is cracked (and not your poptop) that they are telling customers this ahead of time: "Oh, and by the way, you'll have a poptop with what looks like a crack in it because our mold is junk, but that's what you get for spending 6K plus on a poptop for an 11+ year old van that isn't worth our time to install a poptop on anyway you dummy customer!"

Every Astro / Safari owner that I've spoken with that had a CCV poptop installed has mentioned Derek's (limited) people skills.

Did you pay with credit card? If so, perhaps that could provide some benefit/pressure for CCV to resolve this to your satisfaction.

Best of luck.

Truly appreciate your response Strove... Derek's customer service (and/or lack of people skills) is pretty much mind blowing. This is by far the worst customer service I have experienced from ANY shop in my lifetime. He is rife with excuses time and time again. I feel for Matt who is nice guy, he is stuck in the middle with absolute no power to do anything... Derek is his own worst enemy. What makes it worse is when I got there, I met someone who I know from the vanagon world that I am also a part of... and he knows how I pimp out Stephan's Auto Haus for the worked done on my vanagon, and the 1.8T engine conversion. I represent him at a major vanagon event every year and I have steered quite a few customers his way... on the other end of the spectrum, SAH has been the best automotive experience I have ever had, bar none!

I am doing what I need to do now...

Let my experience serve as a warning to others if they are even remotely thinking of doing business with CCV... better yet, let Derek's own words light the way... is any problem you encounter really worth his effort once he has your money? Especially if you live 5 states away...

 

[BobbyJones]

What a crap experience, been following on here and Astrosafari.com and I know you we're stoked for this. It's a lot of money to pay not only for the less than stellar work, but the email replies are a little offputting.

I really had my heart set on a CCV Poptop. As a matter of fact, I thought that it'd be there right about now getting done.

Not that I'm saying it will, but even if this turns into a case of "he said-he said", it's enough to scare me off.

I hope you come to an amicable resolution and can sleep better about the frustration and the money you spent.

 

[tequilasunset]

What a crap experience, been following on here and Astrosafari.com and I know you we're stoked for this. It's a lot of money to pay not only for the less than stellar work, but the email replies are a little offputting.

I really had my heart set on a CCV Poptop. As a matter of fact, I thought that it'd be there right about now getting done.

Not that I'm saying it will, but even if this turns into a case of "he said-he said", it's enough to scare me off.

I hope you come to an amicable resolution and can sleep better about the frustration and the money you spent.

Thanks Bobby... you can just let the pictures and Derek's own words paint the picture for you...

The raised hairline crack is also cosmetic as the crack is in the gelcoat of the mold not your top so the line gets transfered over to the top. We will not replace it with another new top, the top you got is a "new top". New is relative, your van is a van that has not been produced for 11 years and finding someone that is going to make a "new" mold for a van that is 11plus years old van because it has a couple cosmostic blemishis, is not going to happen. These molds cost over 10k per van and selling 3 or 4 astro van tops a year does not give us enough reason to spend that kind of money on a mold so that astros have a flawless top. So we are stuck using existing molds for old vans and spending our time and energy focusing on molds for new vans.

Shame on me for paying for flawless work and actually expecting it huh... and poor Derek, he is stuck using existing molds... and I am stuck with holding the bag, right?

Too late for amicable... I gave him too many chances to step up, instead he chose to step on me.

 

[Herbie]

IMHO that one and the bolt walking around in the scissor lift are the two scariest ones, because those are mechanical issues that will affect your use of the top FOREVER. Most of the others are cosmetic issues you can sort over time.

I haven't seen the CCV lift mechanism up close - is it motor driven? Linear actuators on each side? If so, worst case, maybe just separate the controls onto two toggle switches so you can pause one side to let the other catch up?

Are there helper springs too? If so, one side may be adjusted too tight or loose.

Regarding the pivot bolt problem:
I would pop over to the Sportsmobile Forum and do a little research - I've seen similar issues on some of the scissor lifts from SMB - there's a "known" fix that involves fitting bushings into the joint and using shoulder bolts, I think. I wouldn't let that action continue - you're likely to end up with the top crashing down at some point.

This one almost looks like the top needs to be trimmed back a little - since it's a top that was originally meant to be bonded on, it might be too wide there. That said, the GTRV top is a custom mold and does come close to the door (and opening/closing the door does compress the bulb seal a bit). My bulb seal had other issues after 20+ years, so I just recently replaced mine. The upside is that to remove/re-install is pretty simple unless adhesives were used for some reason (shouldn't be needed).

I'm REALLY sorry to hear you're having problems. I was SO hoping there'd be another pop-top vendor for the market, now that Mike Reed at GTRV is being a primadonna about his product.

 

[Gooseberry]

Wait shouldn't the top fit inside the roof drip rails? Thanks for posting this before I contacted him. My wife wants a power top and was thinking of his solution but nope it's smb west


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[FarmerFrederico]

Sorry to hear that tequila. No good. I said before in a previous thread that I backed out for personal reasons. While that is true, my biggest motivation was because of his customer service skills. At the time I wasn't comfortable speaking about a business I hadn't officially done business with, and who's work I've never personally examined up close. I wanted to come visit the shop and see examples of his work - that was difficult to schedule with him. Initially his business guy was Stephen - that's who I emailed and talked to on the phone with. Right after I pulled my deposit, I read on the previous thread about how Stephen was replaced with Matt. Right then I knew I had a close call. I was just too worried about issues right out of the gate and not getting any support down the line. I'm in a position now that if I had gotten a top from him that had any of the issues you are speaking of, I would have felt down right gutted as well. So glad I backed out. Again - so sorry you are going through this. Be diligent and follow through with your desire to see this made right!

This was the biggest red flag I had trying to work with him - he was ready to take my credit card number before a formal quote or estimate was emailed to me.

 

[brianjwilson]

Ah man it makes me sad to see these posts about CCV over and over.
His stuff looks good in picture (usually) but the details really make it sad. Best of luck with your rig.

 

[tienckb]

Sorry to hear about your issues Tequila.


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2002 LX470 expo ready
2008 Ford E350 EB V10 4x4 Sportsmobile PH top
Custom off road trailer

 

[tequilasunset]

IMHO that one and the bolt walking around in the scissor lift are the two scariest ones, because those are mechanical issues that will affect your use of the top FOREVER. Most of the others are cosmetic issues you can sort over time.

I haven't seen the CCV lift mechanism up close - is it motor driven? Linear actuators on each side? If so, worst case, maybe just separate the controls onto two toggle switches so you can pause one side to let the other catch up?

Are there helper springs too? If so, one side may be adjusted too tight or loose.

Regarding the pivot bolt problem:
I would pop over to the Sportsmobile Forum and do a little research - I've seen similar issues on some of the scissor lifts from SMB - there's a "known" fix that involves fitting bushings into the joint and using shoulder bolts, I think. I wouldn't let that action continue - you're likely to end up with the top crashing down at some point.

This one almost looks like the top needs to be trimmed back a little - since it's a top that was originally meant to be bonded on, it might be too wide there. That said, the GTRV top is a custom mold and does come close to the door (and opening/closing the door does compress the bulb seal a bit). My bulb seal had other issues after 20+ years, so I just recently replaced mine. The upside is that to remove/re-install is pretty simple unless adhesives were used for some reason (shouldn't be needed).

I'm REALLY sorry to hear you're having problems. I was SO hoping there'd be another pop-top vendor for the market, now that Mike Reed at GTRV is being a primadonna about his product.

Thanks Herbie... yeah the pivoting of the bolt is is a big issue, and yet again no follow up by Derek on getting this fixed... just a stupid email this morning making excuses and passing blame.

 

[tequilasunset]

Wait shouldn't the top fit inside the roof drip rails? Thanks for posting this before I contacted him. My wife wants a power top and was thinking of his solution but nope it's smb west


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No drip rails Goose... and smart move not doing business with him...

 

[tequilasunset]

Sorry to hear that tequila. No good. I said before in a previous thread that I backed out for personal reasons. While that is true, my biggest motivation was because of his customer service skills. At the time I wasn't comfortable speaking about a business I hadn't officially done business with, and who's work I've never personally examined up close. I wanted to come visit the shop and see examples of his work - that was difficult to schedule with him. Initially his business guy was Stephen - that's who I emailed and talked to on the phone with. Right after I pulled my deposit, I read on the previous thread about how Stephen was replaced with Matt. Right then I knew I had a close call. I was just too worried about issues right out of the gate and not getting any support down the line. I'm in a position now that if I had gotten a top from him that had any of the issues you are speaking of, I would have felt down right gutted as well. So glad I backed out. Again - so sorry you are going through this. Be diligent and follow through with your desire to see this made right!

This was the biggest red flag I had trying to work with him - he was ready to take my credit card number before a formal quote or estimate was emailed to me.

Smart man you are, dodged a missile... wish I had been as smart... I am torn apart over this. I used my savings to pay for this and have been unemployed for 2.5 years taking care of my mom... this van was to travel the country when she passes on, now I don't want to even drive it.