comparing Phoenix and FWC grandby

[Brushbuster]

Thanks
I was thinking of the pipe insulation stopped at a home depot they did not have the right size I will get some larger stuff when I get home. Also the thread sealer is a good idea. I will also line everything with the foil type insulation or foam board. Even the sides(inside bed) and the bottom of camperit has runners under it to space it off of cab so it makes the side of bed rail to camper clearance really large. Glad it was custom built for a 2010 f150 . When we we had it installed at the factory they had to add the spacers to make it clear the cab.

 

[deeppurpleman]

Brushbruster, I noticed you ordered your camper in late November and picked it up before Christmas. That's a really quick turnaround. What was the total flow time from order to delivery? Did you have a pretty basic camper design? Just curious how you got it so fast.

 

[GreginSocal]

Really, what is that. You think you know the inner workings over at Phoenix?

 

[deeppurpleman]

No, I do not know anything of the inner workings at Phoenix.

Brushbuster and I have been talking about truck campers, and all I know is what he has told me. I will let him share what and when he feels like it.

Hopefully we'll hear something from him because now I'm really curious. Doesn't sound good.

 

[Pest]

I'm curious too. We're quite happy with our Phoenix (you'd have to check my thread for the remodel we did). As far as the insulation and stitching and stuff, it's normal to be able to see light coming through the sewing holes in direct sun light, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will leak water in. We've had zero leaks with our unit. And yeah, in any pop-up, in really cold weather it's going to be cold inside without a heater on, after all, it's still just fabric at the top. Heat rises, so it will tend to leak out through the fabric and leave a colder bottom.

Not trying to defend against something I don't know about, just stating what seems obvious to me with a pop-up.

 

[docdave]

I think all soft sides have those stitch holes, my older hallmark is like that too. The holes are so small that the surface tension of the water drops prevent them from coming through. I haven't been out in the cold yet, but wouldn't be suprised if there is some air leakage....the seam sealer might be a good idea. That's a pretty short turnaround from order to build....could have been a slow point in production....when I was at Coyote RV, I understood that they build a couple or so a month.

 

[GreginSocal]

You didn't even know Brushbuster until he posted this thread. You sent him a PM telling him not to buy a Phoenix. You guys dont' even know each other. I spoke to him and he couldn't remember your full screen name, he called you "overland something".Don't act like you two are long lost friends.I have read all of your threads and your personal attacks against Coyote RV is going to come to an end. It is fine that you are a fan of FWC, but don't make false statements against Coyote RV. I have also read your post's on WTW, and you have made some very nasty remarks against Coyote RV. Rob is a very nice guy with a family and you don't know anything about the company, why don't you read the positive posts relating to Coyote RV. There are a lot of very satisfied customers. For you to PM someone telling them not to buy a product is uncalled for. How would you like it if someone did the same to your company? If you don't have something nice to say, then keep it to yourself. BTW, Brushbuster read your PM to me over the phone. I know what you said to him. As far as you saying "Brushbuster and I have been talking about truck campers" that is a total fabrication. The only talking that was done was on the post's and you sending him a PM.

 

[Overland Hadley]

GreginSocal,

You are very passionate about Phoenix campers, and that is fine. I simply have a different opinion than yours, and when people ask for an opinion I took the time to give it.

But I have better things to do than argue with you. I deleted my posts that upset you.

Lets move on.

 

[Pest]

I'll just say this...

While the initial interior quality could use a little improvement on Phoenix campers, it's not awful. You have to keep in mind that these are built custom, which absolutely means there is not a totally "engineered plan". They have essentially a 1-3 man operation. Could you really expect such fast turn around times with the very competitive pricing for 100% custom without something being sacrificed??

Let me state the reasons I didn't go with FWC. 1) Time. The lead time for a completely non-custom when I called was over 4 months! Our Phoenix was delivered within 4 weeks. 2) Cost. We paid thousands less than a non-custom. 3) Flooring. You simply CAN NOT use a FWC off the truck without carrying around supports to set it on. That is a pain in the ***, and adds weight. We've used our Phoenix many times off-vehicle when it's standing on only the corner jacks. It is counter balanced well enough that we can sleep up top with no worries. 4) Front nose cone. My fuel economy says it all. 5) Storage. We have gobs of storage, FWC has very very little.

 

[Overland Hadley]

Pest,

I agree with you on points 3,4 and 5.

A FWC is a standard box, with very little storage.

 

[Pest]

Pest,

I agree with you on points 3,4 and 5.

A FWC is a standard box, with very little storage.

Heh, I guess 1 and 2 vary depending on time of year and model you want.

 

[zoblo]

I bought a phoenix camper shell for my 92 toyota pickup last june. I've been very happy with it and the construction of the camper body itself is great. I noticed in looking at the models that were on hand, that the interior cabinetry is pretty basic and certainly not fine cabinetry but should work just fine. But I bought a shell so wasn't too concerned about that. Being custom made to my specs I was able to get a camper that was exactly what I wanted and not a compromise of something built to a standard plan. I wanted it to be garageable and light weight which is hard to find as I didn't want to do any mods to my truck and still take it 4 wheeling. My camper will fit in my 7' garage, the shell weighed 600lbs sans jacks (weighed truck before and after), after 4,000 mile trip to BC, seems to have reduced gas mileage only about a 1mpg. The fiberglass molded front wedge (unique to phoenix) on the cabover and having it just come up to just behind the windshield really reduces drag. Since then i've added about 150 lbs with a 12v/120/ fridge, countertop and sink with some plastic bins under the counter top for drawers to save weight, water tank, extra battery and an 85 watt solar panel. I didn't add such things as a 20 gal propane tank, heater etc. as these things take up interior space and add a lot of weight. I was looking at fourwheel camper but I live in colorado and decided to check out phoenix first. After visiting them, talking and seeing how they were made and how I could custom make it, i decided it would work just fine for me. So I guess like anything else, it just depends on what u are looking for and want and need to do some research first.

 

[GreginSocal]

Wow, you are obviously very upset by the fact that I am not a fan of Phoenixs quality. So for full disclosure this is what I know.

-I have talked to several people who owned a Phoenix camper and they complained of poor quality, many trips back to the factory to have problems fixed, and a camper that weighed way more than they were told it would.

My original PM to Brushbuster simply told him this is what other people had told me, and I would do some proper research before buying one. I NEVER told him not to buy a Phoenix. When Brushbuster told me he had made a deposit and was getting a Phoenix I told him I hoped I was wrong and he got a great camper.



Here is the last PM that I received from Brushbuster

Post the PM you sent to Brushbuster.

 

[GreginSocal]

GreginSocal,

You are very passionate about Phoenix campers, and that is fine. I simply have a different opinion than yours, and when people ask for an opinion I took the time to give it.

But I have better things to do than argue with you. I deleted my posts that upset you.

Lets move on.

Nate,

It isn't the fact that you give an opinion when asked. It is the fact you are not telling the truth. You stated the you and Brushbuster have been talking, this is not true. You sent a PM, he didn't see it, and this is talking? We all have better things to do than argue on a forum, but when you don't tell the truth, you open yourself up to a response. I know you hate being called out, but you simply can't make false statements about a company and then say it was just your opinion or say "that's what I heard". Forums are for constructive debate, information, and for people who share the same passion about a specific interest. I went through and read all of your posts on this forum and WTW, and I have to say that some of the statements that you make are down right libelous. The big difference here is that Coyote RV is a small family owned business and you do not have first hand knowledge about them. There is no perfect company. There will always be upgrades that we can do to our campers. All of the RV companies strive for a better product while trying to keep costs down. Wouldn't it be great if all of the truck camper companies could use the same components as the XPCamper and still keep the cost around 20K. I have been in manufacturing (designed and built GPS units) and have seen first hand that customers want everything but don't want to pay for it. For all of the brave souls that built there own truck campers around the world, my hats off to you. For you guys and gals are truly inspiring (as well as all of the truck camper manufactures) and know first hand what it is like to be in manufacturing.

 

[docdave]

I have to agree with Klahanie, there's been a lot of good constructive information on this thread, but some of this is a bit personal. This is an interesting subject, comparing and contrasting the features of two different campers, representing differing construction philosophies, particularly in light of the commonality of the two companies roots. There are bound to be strong opinions, sometimes magnified by the need to justify our own purchase decisions, sometimes due to exhaustive research. Four Wheel Campers is a true pioneer in off road truck campers, and represents evolution of the pop up camper. Coyote RV is a "yeah, we can do that" outfit that helps customers who have a specific idea of what they want realize their dreams. I was initially not too impressed with the interior workmanship, but on second glance found it to be more "simple" than "shabby". The new FWC factory, new offerings and improved distribution are exciting changes in the industry, but sitting down with Rob and Cari and imagining what you really want in a personal camper is cool too. Continuing this discussion can be valuable in providing insight to other potential buyers, let's keep our eye on the ball.