Computer and other electronic issues

[Woodweller]

As the stock of older vehicles slowly shrinks, what do we do about newer trucks, especially those made after 1996? The advent of extensive use of computer and electronic equipment in all vehicles leaves me wondering, what happens, for instance, when a traction control sensor goes bad in the wilderness, miles from help leaving you with a vehicle that won't respond to the throttle pedal because the ECU is trying to limit non-existent wheelspin by cutting power? I've had this happen on almost all vehicles in our fleet (2003-2012) while driving ON the road, much less OFF road, and the usual result is a multiple hundred dollar repair that needs other computerized equipment to diagnose it.

I'm mostly happy for the OBD 1 tech in my 1995 Suburban, but I was still stranded once by a bad ignition module. My daughter's 1997 Buick and the aforementioned fleet of 7 vehicles is driving me nuts. I sure wouldn't want to get one of them stuck in the hinterlands with a mixed up computer. Is there some secret way to bypass electronics to some extent to get out of an emergency situation? Short of converting everything to carburetors and ignition points, what can be done to assure reliability in a newer vehicle that is dependent on computer technology to function, not just monitor the A/C and GPS?

Or should we seek to stock up on old trucks?

 

[Pilat]

I think that we to a higher degree have to relearn our approach and prepare for that new type of problems. I am not an off-roader, though, but I do think that to a degree it is about reschooling ourselves, learn to do problem shooting differently. In general, I do prefer more modern engines and so on, and although more complex, I have good experiences driving modern cars, apart from the odd central locking feature (which can be removed or not optioned) and the start disabling idiotic systems (which can also be removed before they wreck havoc).

 

[XJLI]

Some newer vehicles are built with off road travel in mind, so the TCS/ABS/EBD/whatever is built for the driver to adjust it, or turn it off completely if necessary. Other vehicles are not. Don't buy those.

Modules can be overridden... Guys with newer Rovers have diagnostic tools they use to get them out of the electronic, uh, "quirks" that can come up miles from the road. I'm sure more stuff will come up as tech gets more advanced.

 

[GregSplett]

I have a friend with a new er dodge truck that has the dpf filter on it.The filter could not operate properly and left him limping out of the woods at 20 miles an hour and barely making a couple of grades.The scary part was he had is very old father with him and was not sure if he would make it out.He does not own that truck anymore.

It is not the computer controlled systems, created by the manufacturer that bother me as much as it is government regulation.The only reason that truck was disabled was to protect the environment,at the risk of the humans inside.That is activist government at work.Not much dodge can do about it.dodge can install overrides for systems under their control to keep you buying their vehicle.

 

[Woodweller]

"Some newer vehicles are built with off road travel in mind, so the TCS/ABS/EBD/whatever is built for the driver to adjust it, or turn it off completely if necessary." What vehicles are these? I'd hope some manufacturer would do this, but gov't regulators (as mentioned below) don't like their regulations to be messed with.

 

[1stDeuce]

"Some newer vehicles are built with off road travel in mind, so the TCS/ABS/EBD/whatever is built for the driver to adjust it, or turn it off completely if necessary." What vehicles are these? I'd hope some manufacturer would do this, but gov't regulators (as mentioned below) don't like their regulations to be messed with.

I don't know of any four wheeled vehicles with systems that are driver "adjustable", but anything better than a "car" should have an off button for traction control and stability control. And if all else fails, you pull the "ABS" fuse and those systems are out of the picture. There are some vehicles with driver selectable "modes" that can help... Jeep has like five ABS/Traction Control/Stability control modes in the newer Grand Cherokees... I think Toyota is doing similar things on FJ's, and LR does something on it's more expensive models too, but that's more about function than failure.

To the OP, I tend to be scared too, and I worked in the auto industry, so I have a lot of neat tools and knowledge that the average Joe doesn't... There are things on newer cars that can fail and leave the average consumer stranded, or "limping" home. When the cars are new, failure is not likely, but as they approach 10-15 years old, things get iffy in my experience. Luckily, almost all the failures I've been part of involved wiring issues, not computer module failures. UNFORTUNATELY, repair shops make a LOT of money replacing perfectly good engine controllers, trans controllers, etc, because of intermittent wiring issues and the general public's believe that "computers" fail... Trust me, the modules in modern vehicles are FAR more robust than your home computer.

If you know a little bit about the way modern vehicles work, you can get around many of the failures that might otherwise leave you stranded. For example, I once was driving a Buick Rainier (GM owned vehicle built into a "mule" for a newer model) that developed a wiring issue (we ran a screw through a harness I'm pretty sure...) that prevented the body controller from passing commands, including the "start" command, to the engine controller. Turn the key all you want and it wouldn't crank, though everything would come on. Nothing you could do from the driver's seat. But I was smart enough to know that everything was "on" with the key on, so I pulled the starter relay and jumped the connections across with a paper clip and voila, the engine cranked and ran. The same trick worked on a CTS with a failed or missing clutch switch. Without being smart enough to figure out how the system worked and bypass it, I'd have been stuck where I was waiting for a tow truck with either vehicle.

My Jeep has exactly two "computers" in it: one for the engine, and one in the instrument cluster. It'll run fine without the cluster, so the only critical one is the ECM. I have a spare ECM just in case, but I don't expect I'll ever need it. Everything else is easily diagnosed and fixed. That's the only kind of vehicle I'd be comfortable taking anywhere in the world.

No matter what vehicle you drive, you can probably get familiar enough with it to keep it going, or prevent it from getting damaged, but you have to know more and more as vehicles get more and more complex, and I just don't care to learn much more.

Good luck!!

 

[PJorgen]

This probably won't be a popular option - but how about not putting yourself in a position where having your vehicle operational is a matter of life-or-death?

That might mean traveling with a group or carrying an emergency means of communication. I admit I've not always done that, but I think it's worth considering.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Buy an extra ecu for 100 bucks and carry it as a spare?
I'm not scared of these evil new fangled computers. I rarely see them go bad. Every makes a huge deal about computers and they have time after time proven to be reliable. Of course there is always the exception. But that's rarer than made out to be.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[LR Max]

Carry the proper tools.

I carry vehicle specific tools for my 1973 truck. For a newer truck I'd be carrying at least an OBD2 scanner or drop $$$ for a vehicle specific computer. That is the proper tool for the job.

As for general vehicle reliability, on a daily basis, how often do you see a newer vehicle stranded on the side of the road? I don't. Its always 10+ years. Newer vehicles are typically very reliable. Sure there are a few models out there or specific instances but typically they are. Just look over at the thread, talking about JD Power vehicle reliability. It shows the "number of issues per 100 vehicles". Across the board, it was cut in half in the past 10 years.

Example: Land Rover LR3. Obviously rover has the reputation for being a finicky vehicle with reliability issues. So with an LR3 on the trail, one carries the LR specific computer tool. If the air suspension freaks itself out (which it can do), one, pulls out the computer, resets the air suspension, and you are back on the trail. Quicker than changing a tire. With an older D2, trip an ABS sensor. Pull out the scanner, reset it. Good to go (unless the sensor/wiring has been physically damaged but that is to be expected).

Na. Newer vehicles are pretty solid. The ECUs and wiring are also solid.

 

[XJLI]

I don't know of any four wheeled vehicles with systems that are driver "adjustable", but anything better than a "car" should have an off button for traction control and stability control. And if all else fails, you pull the "ABS" fuse and those systems are out of the picture. There are some vehicles with driver selectable "modes" that can help... Jeep has like five ABS/Traction Control/Stability control modes in the newer Grand Cherokees... I think Toyota is doing similar things on FJ's, and LR does something on it's more expensive models too, but that's more about function than failure.

Yes, driver adjustable = terrain response, selec-terrain, whatever. You can choose an "off road" traction control mode, as opposed to say, a honda that just cuts throttle when it detects slip.

Carry the proper tools.

I carry vehicle specific tools for my 1973 truck. For a newer truck I'd be carrying at least an OBD2 scanner or drop $$$ for a vehicle specific computer. That is the proper tool for the job.

As for general vehicle reliability, on a daily basis, how often do you see a newer vehicle stranded on the side of the road? I don't. Its always 10+ years. Newer vehicles are typically very reliable. Sure there are a few models out there or specific instances but typically they are. Just look over at the thread, talking about JD Power vehicle reliability. It shows the "number of issues per 100 vehicles". Across the board, it was cut in half in the past 10 years.

Example: Land Rover LR3. Obviously rover has the reputation for being a finicky vehicle with reliability issues. So with an LR3 on the trail, one carries the LR specific computer tool. If the air suspension freaks itself out (which it can do), one, pulls out the computer, resets the air suspension, and you are back on the trail. Quicker than changing a tire. With an older D2, trip an ABS sensor. Pull out the scanner, reset it. Good to go (unless the sensor/wiring has been physically damaged but that is to be expected).

Na. Newer vehicles are pretty solid. The ECUs and wiring are also solid.

x1000

Maybe just buy Toyota & NEVER worry...

Lol.