Considerations when upgrading from wire to synthetic rope

[fourstringfletch]

2014 shall be the year of improving my recovery kit.

I just ordered a synthetic line to replace the 5/16 cable on my Warn M8000 (on my 99 taco).
The cable is slightly damaged in the first 20' (coils like a phone cord with 1 or 2 broken strands) so I'd like to cut that section off and pack it as an extension.
I searched for how to crimp new loops in the ends, but only found a tutorial for making an extension with synthetic rope.
Crane guys swear by Crosby Clips, how would you make an old cable into a safe extension?

Also, what are your thoughts on fairleads? Aluminum Hawse or poly rollers? Keeping in mind that my current roller fairlead doubles as the most effortless bottle opener I've ever experienced.

I plan to use the same hook and drum. Bad ideas?

Thank guys, always appreciate the knowledge here.

 

[tarditi]

The terminating end of a winch cable/rope is not what holds the strain of the winching exercise - it is the nature of the wraps around the drum (that's why you never wind out to the last wrap!). Unless your wire rope is severely frayed (more than 2 wires on a wound strand - more like 1/3 through an entire strand) you should be fine - just don't spool out your line that much.
I like the new block-type safety thimble that you can place a clevis on - I've use a hook for many years with no problem, but have also seen people's hands sucked into the fairlead when spooling-back. In any case, at least have a safety block.
For fairlead, a nice hawse fairlead will serve both wire rope and synthetic - roller is not suitable for synthetic.
Either way, the drum should be fine to be reused unless it's binding (crimped) or otherwise damaged.

 

[86tuning]

Consider buying a synthetic extension of 3/8" line. Cheaper, lighter, easier to manage, and can be rigged up against a pulley (16k pull) and you don't have to worry about the extension breaking. I have a 40' extension, cost less than $100 and weights a couple pounds at most.

I don't have a hook on my thimble. I just use a shackle when needed. The rest of the time my rope is tucked away and hidden from view.

Now is a good time to service the winch and perhaps paint your drum while it is apart...

 

[waterboy222]

Have you considered turning your line around? use the bad end on the drum portion

 

[86tuning]

Warn aluminum fairlead is cheap, light, and has better approach angle than a roller fairlead. I use the door latch strikers to open bottles.

 

[olsen_karl]

I don't have a hook on my thimble. I just use a shackle when needed. The rest of the time my rope is tucked away and hidden from view.

By doing this, is there any concern about not keeping tension on the outer wrap (or two) of line?

I just have the stock hook on the stock loop, poking out of the bumper through the fairlead. It'd be nice to just leave the rope entirely tucked inside the bumper -- covered from UV, road salt, etc.

 

[emmodg]

I would be VERY cautious about using steel cable as an extension for poly winch line!!!!! (I wouldn't do it.) If that's what you were planning to do.

5/16 steel cable has a lower breaking strength - maybe 9500 to 10,000 pounds (WLL of around 1800-1900lbs maybe..and that's generic 7x19 construction). Your poly line will be MUCH stronger - break strength much higher as your WLL and safety factor will be greater. So you'd be putting a big, long weak link in your winch rig! Your steel line will pop before the poly and hurl all sorts of stuff around in a violent manner. Steel cable also has much more stretch in it when compared to poly. If your spending the coin for poly don't defeat it's strength by using steel line with it.

Ahhhhh the great fairlead debate! Rollers are nice as they support sometimes necessary and bizarre winching angles with less friction and "kink" in any line. Hawse are nice as they're light and way back in the day "they" were saying that you HAD to use a Hawse with poly line but that is BS. in 2 schools with over 60 trucks with the great majority of those trucks having roller fairlead and poly line we NEVER had a problem with line/fairlead "weirdness"! Steel line will cut up and through a Hawse fairlead in a heartbeat! DON'T use steel with an aluminum Hawse fairlead.(I just saw one of our old Superwinch aluminum hawse fairleads today - it was used with steel and the "mouth" has big-old cuts and gashes in it from the steel cable. It was used in a class when we had no other truck. If you have rollers and they're not all nicked-up from your steel then why spend more money. (Just don't use rollers if they're all buggered-up from steel as it's a good way to scuff poly which doesn't suffer "scuffs" much at all!

IF you wanna make a spare winch line with your old steel cable get some saddle clamps and a thimble and have at it! Minimum of 3 (I use 4) clamps and "NEVER saddle a dead horse" - never let the "saddle" portion of your clamps rest on the tag end of the line.

And for God's sake - please don't re-spool the last bit of line by holding on to ANYTHING OTHER than the hook with a couple fingers!!!! (Almost like you would hold a piece of pooh.) I've seen students get lazy and hold the line in front of the hook and get scary close to the fairlead. If you were to be re-spooling steel line and a "fish hook" digs into the old palm your hand is going for a ride into the mouth of the fairlead! Use glove always and stay at LEAST 2 feet from the fairlead.

 

[86tuning]

By doing this, is there any concern about not keeping tension on the outer wrap (or two) of line?

I just have the stock hook on the stock loop, poking out of the bumper through the fairlead. It'd be nice to just leave the rope entirely tucked inside the bumper -- covered from UV, road salt, etc.

You'll unspool all that before winching anyways, what difference does it make? A steel wire rope would sproing on you, but synthetic line doesn't care.

The newer Warn aluminum hawse fairleads have a fairly wide gap, wide enough for me to carefully fish out the thimble before I head out 4wheeling. Then I put a shackle on it so it's handy.

Between uses I remove the shackle then tuck the end of the rope behind the fairlead and nobody knows I have a winch.

And the rope itself is protected from impact, as I do tend to rub the bumper against rocks or other objects every now and then.

 

[fourstringfletch]

Perhaps I should reiterate that I already have a synthetic line on the way and will be installing it on my drum. Always keeping in mind not to completely unwind.

That leaves me with a 5/16 steel cable in relatively good shape. Since I planned to cut off the ends, I thought I'd try to use it as an extension since I have it.

emmodq - I really appreciate your thoughts and I'm abandoning this ship. I hadn't yet looked up the strength of the cable and had assumed it was stonger than a synthetic line of the same size. Thanks for pointing that out. For warn to sell a snatch block that allows for doubling the power of a winch, I thought for sure they would supply their winches with a cable strong enough to handle that! Scary stuff - happy to get rid of the dangerous thing.

So what do people do with these cables after replacing them??

 

[pugslyyy]

Perhaps I should reiterate that I already have a synthetic line on the way and will be installing it on my drum. Always keeping in mind not to completely unwind.

That leaves me with a 5/16 steel cable in relatively good shape. Since I planned to cut off the ends, I thought I'd try to use it as an extension since I have it.

emmodq - I really appreciate your thoughts and I'm abandoning this ship. I hadn't yet looked up the strength of the cable and had assumed it was stonger than a synthetic line of the same size. Thanks for pointing that out. For warn to sell a snatch block that allows for doubling the power of a winch, I thought for sure they would supply their winches with a cable strong enough to handle that! Scary stuff - happy to get rid of the dangerous thing.

So what do people do with these cables after replacing them??

Mine just goes in the scrap metal bin and gets recycled.

 

[RangeBrover]

I sold my brand new steel cable that came on my m12,000, I wouldn't want to mix the 2 types of cable. Just get a synthetic extension if you feel like you need the extra length. Carrying extra steel cable I imagine would be pretty heavy and unwieldy.

 

[Stumpalump]

Steel cable as an extension is a pita because it's so hard to handle and coil up. If you want to use yours anyway as a backup then just use the best part of the cable that you can coil and work with. Probably half of what you have. Use cable clamps from a hardware store. They are easy to use and hold great. Put two on each end. They work great and are better than swaging it in my opinion. Only use a clean smooth hawse fair lead. Make sure no sharp edges from your winch mount or on your drum will ever contact your line. Grind and sand things smooth. As far as what I read hear about synthetic line being stronger than steel.... I say BS. I've broken and seen synthetic break more than steel. It may be stronger in a lab when new but as soon as nicks, sand and sun enter the factor all bets are off. Just pulling a strain on it too fast generates enough heat in the fibers to melt and break it.

 

[robert]

<snip>

And for God's sake - please don't re-spool the last bit of line by holding on to ANYTHING OTHER than the hook with a couple fingers!!!! (Almost like you would hold a piece of pooh.) I've seen students get lazy and hold the line in front of the hook and get scary close to the fairlead. If you were to be re-spooling steel line and a "fish hook" digs into the old palm your hand is going for a ride into the mouth of the fairlead! Use glove always and stay at LEAST 2 feet from the fairlead.

Use the safety leash provided by the manufacturer or make your own but keep your hand away from the fairlead. I used to hold the hook too since it technically could only wind as far as the fairlead. Then one night while working EMS I saw the after effects of a tow truck operator who was rewinding his cable "the way he'd always done it" and he somehow got his hand between the hook and the roller fairlead. He was in the ER but getting ready to go to surgery to have the pieces of his mangled fingers removed. :smilies27

It only takes one slip and it's a very unforgiving piece of equipment with a lot of power behind it. Not knowing how long you've had your winch or if you've had any training, I'd highly recommend getting some expert advice on recovery and using a winch if you haven't (and obviously tow truck operators are necessarily experts). They can be the greatest thing since sliced bread but they can also be extremely dangerous very quickly up to and including death. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Be sure you add several properly rated shackles to your recovery kit too. A short section of synthetic, ~10', is also good for using as a load equalizer.

 

[Haf-E]

emmodq - I really appreciate your thoughts and I'm abandoning this ship. I hadn't yet looked up the strength of the cable and had assumed it was stonger than a synthetic line of the same size. Thanks for pointing that out. For warn to sell a snatch block that allows for doubling the power of a winch, I thought for sure they would supply their winches with a cable strong enough to handle that! Scary stuff - happy to get rid of the dangerous thing.

The snatch block doesn't increase the stress on the existing winch line - but it will double the stress on an extension if it placed between the snatch block and the vehicle or anchor spot - so if that extension is 5/16" cable you would be in trouble perhaps. This is why extensions shouldn't be used with snatch blocks if it can be avoided. For use without a snatch block it should be OKay to use the 5/16" cable as an extension.

Please correct my statement if it is wrong but that was what I was taught...

 

[emmodg]

Poly line is stronger than steel line in the lab or in the woods. Period. Now, is it stronger than 2, 3, 4, or 6" crane line? No. Hell no, but you can't wind than on a vehicle bumper winch either. A 5/16 poly line is stronger than any 5/16 7x19 steel cable. Poly WILL NOT be as "tough" and resistant to rock and abrasion as steel.

I've seen too many violent cable snaps to EVER go back to that stuff! Watch a poly line break in it's inherently "non-violent" fashion and you'll be a convert as well.