Contribution To Expedition Portal

[JeepinBear]

I firmly reject this as a "contribution" to anything, or anyone, other than the OP's ego. The dunes are a special place, and ought not be a canvas for a visitor's idea of what needs to be memorialized.

I care very little that these tracks will be covered quickly. They just should not be there, And, it embarrases me that it carries this sites name, that I hold in higher regard than this.

Clearly, I do not know where this dune is. If in Colorado, it could be a wilderness area, or perhaps BLM land. In either case, my opinion is unchanged. If it is wilderness, it very well may be illegal.

Dale

Ahhhhh...come on guys, although I do not agree with frgtwn AT ALL, he was not disrespectful in his post and does not require any of us to berate him either.

He has a right to his opinion and it does not go against the core principles of ExPo (as I understand them).

If he were on this forum to advocate the closure of backcountry roads it would be a different story.

So, in this case, just consider it a different opinion than your own and feel free to express yours( respectfully) also.

My $.02.

 

[fowldarr]

hahahahahhahahahahhahahah, sorry I just read this entire thread and can't help but laugh, We are all entitled to our own opinions, and nobody deserves to be bashed for theirs. And I'm not going to, I'm just going to walk Expedition Portal.com into a snow covered hillside and post it.

 

[RU55ELL]

By walk, do you mean with yellow footsteps?

 

[fowldarr]

I was trying to keep it family friendly....but the thought had crossed my mind.

 

[RU55ELL]

Plenty family friendly. More explicit words could have been used.

 

[Rando]

I have to agree with frgtwn on this one. That photo looks awfully like the dune face at Castle Creek in the Great Sand Dunes National park (which would also make sense given that this is the only set of dunes like that anywhere near the OP's location). Please correct me if I am mistaken. While this doesn't do any more damage than just walking on the dunes, it totally against the ethics of the National Parks. People don't go to National Parks to read others graffiti or bill boards. If I were to see this on a dune in the National Park, it would give me a very dim view of whatever they were advertising.

 

[BKCowGod]

I have to agree with frgtwn on this one. That photo looks awfully like the dune face at Castle Creek in the Great Sand Dunes National park (which would also make sense given that this is the only set of dunes like that anywhere near the OP's location). Please correct me if I am mistaken. While this doesn't do any more damage than just walking on the dunes, it totally against the ethics of the National Parks. People don't go to National Parks to read others graffiti or bill boards. If I were to see this on a dune in the National Park, it would give me a very dim view of whatever they were advertising.

So, just curious - at what point does graffiti become art? Christo and Jeanne-Claude have done similar things (though on a much grander scale) and people travel around the world to see their work...

 

[Larry]

Post #8 has to be one of the top 10 most ridicules things I ever read here. I don’t personally see what the big deal is. The letters were already starting to disappear before they even finished. I bet by the time they got into their rigs and headed up Medano Pass the letters were already gone. This is quick moving sand for crying out loud. It is not like these guys scarred the earth forever or even an hour.

I think some folks get overly environmentally anal about the simplest of things. Maybe it is just me but it seem like they are always from the Republic of California or a 1 of the million California transplants that moved to in Colorado over the past 20 years that always seems to start the nonsense. It gets very old.

I don’t know if anybody even bothered to notice but this was one of 97 Runner’s first posts. Nice way to show a new member how friendly we all are here.

BTW….welcome to Expo 97 Runner. I live right down the road from you in PW. There is another Expo member with a well built Super Duty with an Alaskan camper that lives in Canon as well.

 

[Rando]

I don't think an ad stamped on a sand dune is comparable to Christo and Jean Claude. I am also fairly sure that they would not be allowed to wrap the sand dunes on any other natural feature in a National Park. Secondly my issue is not so much what was done or the 'environmental damage', but where it was done. This was done in popular section of a National Park (and a wilderness area). I personally don't think this is an appropriate activity in the National Parks. I visit National Parks to view the splendor of nature, not to see ads or self promotion (no matter how ephemeral they may be). I would also consider it inappropriate for a climber to write his name (or 'Drink Coke') on Half Dome in Yosemite, even if it was in chalk 20 minutes before a rain storm.

So, just curious - at what point does graffiti become art? Christo and Jeanne-Claude have done similar things (though on a much grander scale) and people travel around the world to see their work...

 

[BKCowGod]

I don't think an ad stamped on a sand dune is comparable to Christo and Jean Claude. I am also fairly sure that they would not be allowed to wrap the sand dunes on any other natural feature in a National Park. Secondly my issue is not so much what was done or the 'environmental damage', but where it was done. This was done in popular section of a National Park (and a wilderness area). I personally don't think this is an appropriate activity in the National Parks. I visit National Parks to view the splendor of nature, not to see ads or self promotion (no matter how ephemeral they may be). I would also consider it inappropriate for a climber to write his name (or 'Drink Coke') on Half Dome in Yosemite, even if it was in chalk 20 minutes before a rain storm.

They have wrapped or otherwise "defaced" (depending on whose side you take) several local, state, and federally-owned lands. This is a constant debate in the art-history world, when does graffiti become art. The basic answer is - it's art if it was done by somebody you know, and it's graffiti if it was done by a nobody.

Remember - this is not just YOUR national park, it's yours and his and mine and all the lovely employees of Coca Cola's national park. Just because you want to use it in one way doesn't mean I want to use it in the same way. There are plenty of people who think that all those roads through Yosemite are defacing that park.

 

[Mc Taco]

Why is this in the Toyota section?

 

[Co-opski]

Portal at its best keep it up guys and girls.

 

[nucktaco]

I firmly reject this as a "contribution" to anything, or anyone, other than the OP's ego. The dunes are a special place, and ought not be a canvas for a visitor's idea of what needs to be memorialized.

I care very little that these tracks will be covered quickly. They just should not be there, And, it embarrases me that it carries this sites name, that I hold in higher regard than this.

Clearly, I do not know where this dune is. If in Colorado, it could be a wilderness area, or perhaps BLM land. In either case, my opinion is unchanged. If it is wilderness, it very well may be illegal.

Dale

its sand... give me a break. your tire tracks or foot prints on the sand are just as bad.

you might want to hold a conference informing all the desert dwelling creatures (animals) that their tracks will no longer be tolerated as "the dunes are a beautiful place".

 

[Rando]

I know it is 'our' National Park, not 'my' National Park. That is why I do as little as possible to disturb my fellow park goers or degrade their experience in any way. I am also pretty sure there are rules against advertising in National Parks: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0331/p04s01-ussc.html

They have wrapped or otherwise "defaced" (depending on whose side you take) several local, state, and federally-owned lands. This is a constant debate in the art-history world, when does graffiti become art. The basic answer is - it's art if it was done by somebody you know, and it's graffiti if it was done by a nobody.

Remember - this is not just YOUR national park, it's yours and his and mine and all the lovely employees of Coca Cola's national park. Just because you want to use it in one way doesn't mean I want to use it in the same way. There are plenty of people who think that all those roads through Yosemite are defacing that park.

 

[fowldarr]

I think this needs moved to Fireside. Has nothing to do with toyotas. So, I made my smart comments earlier, but this does pose an interesting question, much along the same lines of art v. grafitti. At what point are we doing more harm then is acceptable for our recreation.

For example, the above picture, was likely in a NP (though not confirmed), I grew up not far away from the St. Anthony Sand Dunes in Idaho, where riding, 4 wheeling etc. is permitted. I never saw lasting damage.

Many of the things that are considered grafitti today in nature, are historical landmarks from bygone eras (petroglyphs, signature rock, even a tree in my hometown where the founder carved his initials)

So, in an attempt to keep this civil lets discuss where that line is and move it to fireside.