Convert 2019/20 4x2 Fuso 140 FE (gas) to 4x4?

[C p weinberger]

Biggolies
Do you need to Make plan B and C ?, lot of SA countries are closing beaches and ordering all travelers to relocate.

 

[The Artisan]

Matt's second 4x4 conv as you can tell no expense was spared. His work is top notch and his details are second to none
Kevin

NEVER QUIT Overland's Extreme Isuzu NPR Build & 4x4 Conversion

Several weeks ago, Matt at Angry Iron Metalworks in Georgia, was contacted by NEVER QUIT Overland, to explore the possibility of getting a 2019 Isuzu NPR crew cab, converted to 4WD. After seeing and driving Matt’s newly completed 4x4 conversion using a 2015 NPR crew cab, (see link below to the...

expeditionportal.com

 

[biggoolies]

Biggolies
Do you need to Make plan B and C ?, lot of SA countries are closing beaches and ordering all travelers to relocate.

No. We are free to travel the country. At one check stop they asked if we had masks. I think we are in the best country right now. We are at a beach where there wasn’t another soul all day. Nothing is stopping our plans so far. Heading to the Guatemalan border. Hopefully that will be open in a couple of months.

 

[C p weinberger]

Good luck ? sounds like a plan

 

[Mr M]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the input/suggestions, appreciate it. If ya got some time, some additional background/context and replies to folks who commented:



I’ve been thinking about a camper vehicle for several years, probably a truck camper or a converted cargo van, been saving along the way. Intended main use of the vehicle is for mountain bike and snowboard road-trips and to access trailheads along reasonable forest roads throughout the US and Canada. Not really planning any serious off-road driving, just want to have decent capability for winter driving conditions. Also want to make the camper super insulated for comfortable use in cold climates. Need room for 2 plus dog and want to have mtb bikes stored internally. Ability to tow a snowmobile also.



Decided a van was probably the way to go for my needs and for the longest time was leaning towards a Sprinter 170 4x4 cargo. For various reasons (mostly the bs encountered when attempting to deal with MB dealerships…..), I recently decided there are too many compromises with the Sprinter when considering the money involved and so I’m kinda turned off them and actually sorta glad I wasn’t able to obtain one last year. Research into the issues Sprinter owners have with the diesel emissions systems/sensors have steered me away from diesel vehicles in general.



With Ford releasing the 2020 AWD Transit with an available gas engine this looked like the next option to consider. Cheaper base vehicle than a Sprinter for sure and hopefully cheaper to maintain/repair going forward. However, I’m a little leery of Ford reliability in general and there are a few reports of pretty suspect build quality on the Transits. I drove the same Toyota 4 Runner for 16 years and I like the reliability for sure. Ideally, I’d like to get a Toyota truck/van that is suited for a camper (of sufficient size) but it doesn’t exist unfortunately.



Recently came across the medium duty truck option and got interested. Based in North America (I’m in Oregon), it seems like the vehicle power/drive-train offerings are similar to the Sprinter inasmuch as 4x4 drivetrains are only offered with diesel engines, whereas rest of world often has multiple drivetrain/engine options. And, the FG isn’t currently available in the US. So, the Fuso V8 gas engine sounds good and the payload capacity for sure exceeds what I’d need for a camper, but only comes in 4x2 drivetrain - however, the price for a new one is significantly less than a Sprinter or Transit. Hence this post/discussion. I might get away with 4x2 for winter conditions with such a heavy vehicle and decent snow tires? Not sure, I have no experience driving medium duty trucks. If I try the 4x2 for a winter season and it doesn’t work out I’d like to know I can switch to a 4x4 drivetrain without incurring an astronomical cost…..







Hey biggoolies - cool rig you have there, enjoy Mexico! Interesting what you say about the Isuzu being heavier duty, I hadn’t heard this before. Hear what your saying about a used Fuso FG but I don’t want the diesel issues going forward. Prefer a gas engine option.



Hi gregmchugh, yabjana and carterd - thanks for all the excellent info guys, I was looking for details like that! I looked up all the components Earth Cruiser list for their conversions, agree they are fairly open about things, which is good of them. Don’t want to steal their business or anything, just trying to figure out if there’s a more DIY option that won’t require half a million dollaroonies. I’m definitely naive to some of the details around a 4x4 conversion but the cost of the Dynatrac equipment in particular looks kinda high - don’t get me wrong, I’m sure very high-end quality gear and you’ll get what you pay for in an Earth Cruiser. But does a lump of steel really need to cost $15-20K?!! You mention the option to recover a (more economical) axle from a used Chevy and this sounds reasonable but I’m also wondering if it’s possible to source a brand new axle suitable for 4x4 conversion on a Fuso that’s more in the $2-5K range? Sounds like it should be possible…..again, I wouldn’t need any fancy off-road gear, just an axle with the appropriate weight rating and 4x4. What alternatives are out there? Last, the programming needed for the new transmission doesn’t sound DIY friendly, more of a shop thing, but again I’m naive to these details right now.



Hi theartisan - I agree it depends on budget. There are some awesome rigs out there! As I outlined, considering the cost difference between a Sprinter and a 4x2 Fuso, there’s $15-20K to spare which sounds like a decent amount of money for an axle/T-case etc (ignoring labor perhaps). I read through the threads about the Angry Iron Metalworks conversions, man they look incredible, somebody got a deal on the $75K Isuzu with only 2200 miles on it! The price here had me encouraged but then the second build was an unlimited budget job and not sure I can go there…..



Hi dlh62c - thanks for mentioning the potential insurance issues with a DIY box, I need more info on that for sure. I’d like to go with your plan to try the 4x2 in case it works just fine for my needs, just like to understand the options for 4x4 conversion. At this point I pretty much have gone off the 4x4 Sprinter….too much bs



Anyway, facking long post but hey, it’s Corona-time and I got nuthin else pressin right now…..appreciate any more thoughts from y’all! Surely it’s possible to make a 4x4 Fuso conversion for < $20K!!!??



Cheers

Mr M.

 

[The Artisan]

Mr M I pmd you something you might be interested in
Kevin

 

[cameronsturgess]

Having owned both a fuso fg140
And a sprinter here are the differences. Spoiler alert. Don’t buy a sprinter. If you want a van go with the ford. Then buy the Ford with just the cab and put an insulated box on the back. Unless you need the extra carrying capacity of the larger fuso truck. So you will Need to take a serious look at how much you want to carry.

the sprinter will break. Ours broke more than all the other vehicles combined I have owned in the last 30 years. Not really confidence inspiring. And yes all DEF related.

the fuso is slow and difficult to find . It’s underpowered and geared for city driving. However if you’re ok going slow it offers a tight turning radius and a lot of ground clearance. It’s a terrible ride compared to a van. Harsh And bouncy. Even with parabolic Springs, newshocks and super singles. The van will drive like and suv and the fuso like a dump truck.

I would not recommend trying to do much winter camping in a van. We did try it. You will end up with condensation and that will grow mold. There are too many thermal breaks and single panels of glass to avoid this. Water on steel will rust and mold. its also uncomfortable as it’s hard to keep the temp reasonable. This applies to both hot and cold. Steel gets super hot in summer. It freezes in winter.

better to have a well insulated box on the back. So your choice depending on weight and driving preference. If you can fit it all in a van weight capacity then go that route. It will drive Better. Btw our sprinter was2wd with snows on it and it was excellent in the snow or ice. Good snows make a huge difference.

insulated box can be mounted on the back of a ford cab or the fuso. Fit it out as you see fit. It will be far easier to heat and cool. It won’t have mold if you pay attention to thermal bridges.

or you could pick up a used truck camper. They are much more available out west and see how you like the lifestyle. Once you know your can commit to the build or buy. If you go down the build route there are lots of folks who can help.

weight wise it will mostly depend on water. how long you want to be away and how many showers or access to water. if you want to winter camp that means you’re not jumping in the ocean or lake. So figure two showers a day. Two people etc. I think you’ll find that In a van this means 3-6 days depending on showers and other water use. In the fuso or larger truck it means 7-14 days. All these are guesstimates.

both are awesome. We put 80000 km on a sprinter from coast to coast a couple of times and down to Baja and key west. After three years we wanted more space. So now we have a fuso. Hope this helps.

 

[Mr M]

Mr M I pmd you something you might be interested in
Kevin

Kevin - awesome, I am interested, really appreciate that - cheers!

 

[Mr M]

Having owned both a fuso fg140
And a sprinter here are the differences. Spoiler alert. Don’t buy a sprinter. If you want a van go with the ford. Then buy the Ford with just the cab and put an insulated box on the back. Unless you need the extra carrying capacity of the larger fuso truck. So you will Need to take a serious look at how much you want to carry.

the sprinter will break. Ours broke more than all the other vehicles combined I have owned in the last 30 years. Not really confidence inspiring. And yes all DEF related.

the fuso is slow and difficult to find . It’s underpowered and geared for city driving. However if you’re ok going slow it offers a tight turning radius and a lot of ground clearance. It’s a terrible ride compared to a van. Harsh And bouncy. Even with parabolic Springs, newshocks and super singles. The van will drive like and suv and the fuso like a dump truck.

I would not recommend trying to do much winter camping in a van. We did try it. You will end up with condensation and that will grow mold. There are too many thermal breaks and single panels of glass to avoid this. Water on steel will rust and mold. its also uncomfortable as it’s hard to keep the temp reasonable. This applies to both hot and cold. Steel gets super hot in summer. It freezes in winter.

better to have a well insulated box on the back. So your choice depending on weight and driving preference. If you can fit it all in a van weight capacity then go that route. It will drive Better. Btw our sprinter was2wd with snows on it and it was excellent in the snow or ice. Good snows make a huge difference.

insulated box can be mounted on the back of a ford cab or the fuso. Fit it out as you see fit. It will be far easier to heat and cool. It won’t have mold if you pay attention to thermal bridges.

or you could pick up a used truck camper. They are much more available out west and see how you like the lifestyle. Once you know your can commit to the build or buy. If you go down the build route there are lots of folks who can help.

weight wise it will mostly depend on water. how long you want to be away and how many showers or access to water. if you want to winter camp that means you’re not jumping in the ocean or lake. So figure two showers a day. Two people etc. I think you’ll find that In a van this means 3-6 days depending on showers and other water use. In the fuso or larger truck it means 7-14 days. All these are guesstimates.

both are awesome. We put 80000 km on a sprinter from coast to coast a couple of times and down to Baja and key west. After three years we wanted more space. So now we have a fuso. Hope this helps.

Cameron - dude this helps a ton, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts here! I've been trawling the Sprinter/Transit forums etc for all this kind of info but your candid feedback as an owner of two vehicles I'm considering is priceless.

I think I'd be all over a truck camper if I was traveling solo (I don't need luxury, just capability) but probably need just a tad more space for the two of us plus Aussie shepherd dog, especially considering we'd prefer to be able to stash mountain bikes inside the vehicle rather than outside on a bike rack.

Your thoughts on the Sprinter basically confirm the conclusions I'd reached. However, very interested to note you say the 2wd Sprinter performed ok with good snow tires, previously I've heard very mixed opinions about this and so was leaning towards 4wd, which means diesel, which means DEF and sensor issues.....but if I thought I could get away with a 2wd gas Sprinter then maybe.....

I assume your Fuso is a 4wd FG? I wonder how a 2wd Fuso with super single wheels and good snow tires would perform on snow?

Thanks again for all the info!

 

[The Artisan]

Kevin - awesome, I am interested, really appreciate that - cheers!

Yw will keep you posted. Kind of laying low on my meeting to finalize details due to Corona.
Kevin

 

[carterd]

Mr M. Getting back to your question regarding other off-the-shelf axle options. Take a look at the AxleTech website. They offer heavy duty axles, including portal axles - some even with central tire inflation. The downside is that the final drive ratios are > 5.6:1. You might be able to compensate for this with the transfer case gearing. There are also a lot of Rockwell military axles available, although a similar issue with the gear ratios. Check out Boyce Equipment and Parts for rebuilt Rockwell and GM 14 Bolt axles, customizable to your heart's content. Heavy duty truck transfer cases can also be found from numerous rebuilders. You can by a rebuilt NP263XHD transfer case (used on HD Chevy trucks with Allison transmissions) on Amazon! It is realistic to buy high quality rebuilt axles and a transfer case for <$10K. The expense comes from the integration of those parts to the Fuso. There is a lot of custom bracketry, drivelines, hoses, fittings, shifters, etc. and associated labor to get that fabricated and installed. And rest assured, you won't get it right the first time - so there will be rework. I think if you keep things simple, do a lot of legwork yourself, and have a good fabricator you could come in for around $20K - $25K. It won't have the level of sophistication and integration as the EarthCruiser, but will work. I have been thinking of doing something similar in another 5 years or so - I'm looking for a guinea pig to take the first step.

 

[cameronsturgess]

We had a 2015 3500 sprinter with duallys. It was very good in snow. Drove it thru several brutal snow storms where the roads were littered with trucks. As I said it was surprisingly good. That being said both the fuso (in 2 wheel drive mode) and the sprinter could get stuck under specific conditions. Namely in spring when gravel roads are going thru thawing cycle. There will be a time when you get glare ice on the roads then a bit of snow on top. This is really hard for any 2W drive. Need chains. With chains all round you can drive the rear wheels AND steer. With chains just on drive wheels you can’t steer well or sometimes you can’t steer at all. If these are the conditions you’re in then carry chains. If not then both are ok. Invest in good snows. Learn when to air down.

Our 2010 fuso is a manual 4x4 with lockers on the front. The rear is LSD. It’s possible to spin one or both rears on ice. The LSD doesn’t lock the rears. With the fronts locked and in 4WD then it acts similar to my Toyota Tundra and pulls thru most anything. Again if it’s spring glare ice then at a certain point chains are needed if that’s when you want to use the vehicle.

 

[DirtWhiskey]

Tulsa Truck is the most reputable medium to HD truck converter in the land. I've read anywhere between 25k and 35k for a conversion. Logistics are a little hard but a drive down and a flight back and repeat in reverse. I've done worse.

Another option is to watch the international market like Machinio or Tradus, Mobile.de. etc. I think importing a 1995 model year 4x4 cabover shouldn't be too hard. I have never understood why there isn't a market for 4x4 CF or COE trucks in the USA. It's not like we don't have a market for 2wd versions of this trucks. 4x4 just makes sense. Best of luck!

 

[DzlToy]

For some context, I’m also considering a camper van DIY conversion, e.g. MB Sprinter or Ford Transit - these are $50-65K vehicles (new) with factory 4x4 (and a shell/box). If a new 4x2 Fuso is in the $35-40K range, this “leaves” $10-15K for a 4x4 conversion, which sounds like plenty to me but maybe I’m way off? I’d also need to fabricate a box for the Fuso but that sounds like a fun project!

Surely it’s possible to make a 4x4 Fuso conversion for < $20K!!!??

It really isn't. I have helped Matt at Angry Iron on several of his trucks and quality parts just aren't cheap. Yes, you can buy a used axle for $500 and rebuild it, horse trade for lockers and winches and tires and build a truck on the cheap, but that takes a huge amount of time and effort to do it that way. Remaining is the fabrication and engineering required to create a truck that handles and drives well, has the proper capacities and so on.

Since you have read his build thread, I won't repeat it here, but you are looking at about $20 grand in axles and a transfer case suitable for a medium duty, cabover truck. This does not include installation, drive shafts, steering conversion, winches, bumpers, leaf springs, dampers, coilovers, air bags, wheels, tires or any accessories.

You could shave some costs here and there but doing an entire conversion for 20K is going to be nigh on impossible unless you have a shop, lots of experience and plenty of time to shop for deals. Tulsa Truck charges in the neighbourhood of 25 - 30 grand for a 4WD conversion and their stuff isn't anywhere near the quality of Rebel's or Angry Iron's.

 

[gregmchugh]

It really isn't. I have helped Matt at Angry Iron on several of his trucks and quality parts just aren't cheap. Yes, you can buy a used axle for $500 and rebuild it, horse trade for lockers and winches and tires and build a truck on the cheap, but that takes a huge amount of time and effort to do it that way. Remaining is the fabrication and engineering required to create a truck that handles and drives well, has the proper capacities and so on.

Since you have read his build thread, I won't repeat it here, but you are looking at about $20 grand in axles and a transfer case suitable for a medium duty, cabover truck. This does not include installation, drive shafts, steering conversion, winches, bumpers, leaf springs, dampers, coilovers, air bags, wheels, tires or any accessories.

You could shave some costs here and there but doing an entire conversion for 20K is going to be nigh on impossible unless you have a shop, lots of experience and plenty of time to shop for deals. Tulsa Truck charges in the neighbourhood of 25 - 30 grand for a 4WD conversion and their stuff isn't anywhere near the quality of Rebel's or Angry Iron's.

So, what would be higher quality parts to use on a Kenworth K-370 33,000 lb GVWR truck than the parts used by Tulsa Truck on our conversion, Fabco front axle with manual front hub locks and a Marmon Harrington (Rebranded ZF I believe) two speed transfer case?