DC-DC battery charger under hood?

[big_willy_wanderer]

Any old tech voltage sensing relay can do that....You do not need a dc-dc charge to do that.


Dc-dc's biggest marketing point is that it can charge battery faster and many ppl buy dc-dc for its "performance". And this is simply false advertisement. Especially when ppl buy 25amps baby dc-dc.

Why pay more for mediocre gain?

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

Sorry man....what your saying just isnt true. My point was in putting out solid infornation...not debating it with you. It is a fact that voltage less than the battery requires to recharge will not fully charge the battery. Not got anything to do with speed...its also a fact that dc to dc will charge faster...more efficiently . There will be people that are ok with going cheap and living with the results. There are also people who have different priorities. If your a go cheap guy....have at ir, but no reason to spout off and condemn a type of solution because youbdont understand or approve...lol

 

[john61ct]

There are also high quality alt VRs with proper staged charging and where the charge profile is fully user customizable. No DC-DC charger required, even for an LFP house bank.

But most stock alt setups svck at charging deep cycle, and with a depleted large high-CAR bank, just can't handle it and burn out.

But alt charging isn't the only problem (sometimes) solved by DCDC, can be required for any charge source.

 

[teotwaki]

My CTEK 250 survived many years under the hood of my 4th gen 4Runner. Just be sure not to exceed the max input voltage of any port or you will
damage the CTEK.

 

[martnH]

Any old tech voltage sensing relay can do that....You do not need a dc-dc charge to do that.


Dc-dc's biggest marketing point is that it can charge battery faster and many ppl buy dc-dc for its "performance". And this is simply false advertisement. Especially when ppl buy 25amps baby dc-dc.

Why pay more for mediocre gain?

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

Sorry man....what your saying just isnt true. My point was in putting out solid infornation...not debating it with you. It is a fact that voltage less than the battery requires to recharge will not fully charge the battery. Not got anything to do with speed...its also a fact that dc to dc will charge faster...more efficiently . There will be people that are ok with going cheap and living with the results. There are also people who have different priorities. If your a go cheap guy....have at ir, but no reason to spout off and condemn a type of solution because youbdont understand or approve...lol

I don't know what you talking about.

A modern relay setup dual battery system will not have a voltage drop. Like the simple blue sea acr. These dont have much resistance so not a voltage drop

The dc-dc will not charge the battery faster.

Get your facts right.

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

 

[john61ct]

Yes it will if the source isn't putting out a high enough voltage, which is very common with stock alts running hot,

or if a long run makes fat enough wiring impractical,

bottom line, it all depends on the individual situation.

 

[big_willy_wanderer]

Hey
[B]martnH[/B] -- seems like you think you have all of the right answers. In fact you're not completely wrong about it-- just not close to right. The DC to DC charging systems out there do way more than what you're giving them credit for. Yes there's a financial investment that you have to make if you want to have those options. Sorry mate, but your coming across as a bit of blowhard. I dont need to carry this out any further-- as people become more educated and do their own research, they can come to their own conclusions. I will say that you are right- there are cheaper ways to do things but you either focus completely on the $$$ or you give an honest and educated look at the products that you are being dismissive of- they do serve a purpose - they do offer additional benefits-- real world benefits-- If you don't want to spend the $$$ that's on you.

 

[restorationrides]

Yes it will if the source isn't putting out a high enough voltage, which is very common with stock alts running hot,

or if a long run makes fat enough wiring impractical,

bottom line, it all depends on the individual situation.

I have been sitting on the sidelines for more than a week watching this conversation. By now, it's time to wade in here into the conversations about the potential benefits/drawbacks of dc-to-dc chargers.

I know my comments are going to offend some people but that is not my intention. I don't know how to share knowledge without creating some contradictions for some folk's opinions and or understandings... Anyway so here goes...

--------------------

So, John, if the alternator is too hot and too old and tired, and thus cannot charge the secondary battery sufficiently, how is it possibly going to charge the primary battery for all the demands put up on it by the automobile plus the demands of having the DC DC charger use the primary battery as a source for its charging power to the secondary battery. And remember, we cannot create energy, we can only change it from one form to another and we will always create some waste and inefficiency as a result thereby yielding less total energy to apply to the solution then we started with...

Regards,
RestorationRides

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

 

[martnH]

Hey
[B]martnH[/B] -- seems like you think you have all of the right answers. In fact you're not completely wrong about it-- just not close to right. The DC to DC charging systems out there do way more than what you're giving them credit for. Yes there's a financial investment that you have to make if you want to have those options. Sorry mate, but your coming across as a bit of blowhard. I dont need to carry this out any further-- as people become more educated and do their own research, they can come to their own conclusions. I will say that you are right- there are cheaper ways to do things but you either focus completely on the $$$ or you give an honest and educated look at the products that you are being dismissive of- they do serve a purpose - they do offer additional benefits-- real world benefits-- If you don't want to spend the $$$ that's on you.

Why don't you either

Do not comment and do not personal attacks. Me being stupid doesn't and will never make dc-dc charger (or you) look good . All you did is repeat yourself.

Or

Contribute to this thread. Let's us know what you know and what I do not know.

Nothing is more offensive except personal attacks. Tell me what I don't know and let me realize how stupid I am. Please

Cheers
Martin

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

 

[martnH]

Simple fact:

If the dc-dc charger is so good and delicious, how come none of the manufacturer produce a graph demonstrating the difference in performance.

They won't. Becusse dc-dc charger will do the job slower than your alternator when charging a low battery , especially a big one.


Simple summary:

Dc-dc charge is slower compared to the alternator, when bulking charging (I.e. when the battery is low

Dc-dc charger can top up battery faster but are you sure you think this out weight the faster bulk charging?

Happy to debate politely if anybody disagrees with the above two.

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

 

[martnH]

Also just to add

all Deep Cycle batteries can now be safely cycled down to 20% SoC. Bulk charging is the most important stage to use the battery.

Think about this. $$$guy

And just please call redarc and ctek etc.. to ask this question. Can their dc-dc charge battery faster, especially bulk charging. Even with that 40amps stuffs.
I will give you that the 40amps dc-dc is approaching what an alternator can do with a 100ah battery. Buy not a chance with 3 100ah batteries.

If you are thinking about buying ond, why not give them a call?

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

 

[teotwaki]

Hey
[B]martnH[/B] -- seems like you think you have all of the right answers. In fact you're not completely wrong about it-- just not close to right. The DC to DC charging systems out there do way more than what you're giving them credit for. Yes there's a financial investment that you have to make if you want to have those options. Sorry mate, but your coming across as a bit of blowhard. I don't need to carry this out any further-- as people become more educated and do their own research, they can come to their own conclusions. I will say that you are right- there are cheaper ways to do things but you either focus completely on the $$$ or you give an honest and educated look at the products that you are being dismissive of- they do serve a purpose - they do offer additional benefits-- real world benefits-- If you don't want to spend the $$$ that's on you.

Why don't you either

Do not comment and do not personal attacks. Me being stupid doesn't and will never make dc-dc charger (or you) look good . All you did is repeat yourself.
Or Contribute to this thread. Let's us know what you know and what I do not know. Nothing is more offensive except personal attacks. Tell me what I don't know and let me realize how stupid I am. Please

Cheers
Martin

Quit taking it so personally. Please?

Forums allow everyone, even you, to insert ridiculous statements into any thread on the forum so you cannot order him to cease his comments.

He never called you "stupid" but he did call you a blowhard. That still allows some room for you to be considered intelligent so try to cool off.

If you reread what he wrote he even agreed with you on some points. I underlined one for you.

 

[martnH]

Hey
[B]martnH[/B] -- seems like you think you have all of the right answers. In fact you're not completely wrong about it-- just not close to right. The DC to DC charging systems out there do way more than what you're giving them credit for. Yes there's a financial investment that you have to make if you want to have those options. Sorry mate, but your coming across as a bit of blowhard. I don't need to carry this out any further-- as people become more educated and do their own research, they can come to their own conclusions. I will say that you are right- there are cheaper ways to do things but you either focus completely on the $$$ or you give an honest and educated look at the products that you are being dismissive of- they do serve a purpose - they do offer additional benefits-- real world benefits-- If you don't want to spend the $$$ that's on you.

Why don't you either

Do not comment and do not personal attacks. Me being stupid doesn't and will never make dc-dc charger (or you) look good . All you did is repeat yourself.
Or Contribute to this thread. Let's us know what you know and what I do not know. Nothing is more offensive except personal attacks. Tell me what I don't know and let me realize how stupid I am. Please

Cheers
Martin

Quit taking it so personally. Please?

Forums allow everyone, even you, to insert ridiculous statements into any thread on the forum so you cannot order him to cease his comments.

He never called you "stupid" but he did call you a blowhard. That still allows some room for you to be considered intelligent so try to cool off.

If you reread what he wrote he even agreed with you on some points. I underlined one for you.

Apparently you took a side. This guy started it first. And I also said please and cheers.

It's an invitation for him to contribute to this thread not just point fingers at other like you just did.

What a waste of our time and hard drive

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

 

[john61ct]

Yes it will if the source isn't putting out a high enough voltage, which is very common with stock alts running hot,

or if a long run makes fat enough wiring impractical,

bottom line, it all depends on the individual situation.

I have been sitting on the sidelines for more than a week watching this conversation. By now, it's time to wade in here into the conversations about the potential benefits/drawbacks of dc-to-dc chargers.

I know my comments are going to offend some people but that is not my intention. I don't know how to share knowledge without creating some contradictions for some folk's opinions and or understandings... Anyway so here goes...

--------------------

So, John, if the alternator is too hot and too old and tired, and thus cannot charge the secondary battery sufficiently, how is it possibly going to charge the primary battery for all the demands put up on it by the automobile plus the demands of having the DC DC charger use the primary battery as a source for its charging power to the secondary battery. And remember, we cannot create energy, we can only change it from one form to another and we will always create some waste and inefficiency as a result thereby yielding less total energy to apply to the solution then we started with...

Regards,
RestorationRides

Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk

That is exactly why DCDC chargers exist.

They don't **add** any burdens.

They **regulate** properly.

Most alts on a big thirst deep cycling bank just in effect stop charging completely after a short time.

With a good DCDC charger it keeps volts up, and you find a consistent current rate given temp conditions that the alt can handle.

Converting a decent alt (robust, large frame) to use a quality VR like Balmar MC-614 will do the same thing, but that is often impractical.

 

[john61ct]

Simple fact:

If the dc-dc charger is so good and delicious, how come none of the manufacturer produce a graph demonstrating the difference in performance.

They won't. Becusse dc-dc charger will do the job slower than your alternator when charging a low battery , especially a big one.


Simple summary:

Dc-dc charge is slower compared to the alternator, when bulking charging (I.e. when the battery is low

Dc-dc charger can top up battery faster but are you sure you think this out weight the faster bulk charging?

Happy to debate politely if anybody disagrees with the above two.

Sent from my LG-H870DS using Tapatalk

Bulk may only be the first hour, often less.

If the alt is capable of outputting what's required, at all.

The remaining 4-7 hours needs to also be well-regulated, Absorb voltage maintained until acceptance drops to the endAmps spec.

99.99% of alts out there don't even come close.

 

[john61ct]

You are really limiting yourself with just those vendors. I take it down under?

Can you even adjust setpoints or current levels?

I agree the case for DC-DC chargers is much weaker if those are the only brands you are considering.

There are many different use cases where they may be valuable, but much more limited ones than say the Sterling BB line.

So how would **you** handle charging a bank stored in a "caravan" off alt, say 35' away?

Or in a vehicle with modern Euro style pissweak alts that hardly put out any amps except when braking?