Decision making on a new rig.

[toyrunner95]

ok guys, so i have been deciding on a new expedition rig. right now i have an 84 toyota pickup. decent truck but... its got too many issues to deal with. so ive decided to start anew! i thoguht i decided on an XJ but the unibody really makes me leery, i know they are good trucks and all but i like toe toyota setup and i am already familier with them. my simple criteria is 4x4 suv. i could really do anything with any vehicle. there are always options.

so heres my main delema. do i start on a compleatly new platform, one that i have never ventured into. OR use the money i have alloted and budgeted to get a different toyota and save money by swapping parts over from the 84 which has a good front axle, ubolt flip kit, half a hysteer, bumpers, center console, the stuf that i have built for it. i could reuse that stuff for the new rig. i like the 4runners, espically the older ones that have the removable top. i can clear the 35s i just bought for the truck instead of gettin new ones for 2k. i could spend that on the solid axle swap. i know where there is one that is already halfway done, the whole front end is taken out already, but its missing a motor, but honestly i could rebuild it.

i really like the removeable top idea. it gives me options. PLUS i am already familier with toyota.

i know it sounds like i have changed my mind AGAIN. but i would like to look into ever possible option.

i like the cherokee for its link front end and tighter turning radius, maybe i could coil a 4runner.


what do you guys think HELP IM INDECISIVE!

 

[DaveInDenver]

Since you're asking opinions...

How set on the removable top are you? If I were you I'd go with a 2nd gen 4Runner as base. Lots of options and tons of parts. Use the '84 front axle if you want to really do a SAS, but with the ball joint spacer front, FZJ80 rear springs and OME shocks you can clear 32" tires no problem and 33x9.50 or 33x10.50 with a little extra work on the fender seam. If you do the SAS, you already have the IFS steering box in place. Do the 2" fuel tank lift, a decent center skid and cross member, sliders and you're done. It'll wheel about 90% as good as your '84 and be 200% more comfortable.

But having a fiberglass top is nice, no doubt. The only issue is that it's really not gonna be much different than what you have now. I mean, if you take all the parts you have now and move them to a 1986-1989 with a blown engine, it seems you'll end up with pretty much the same issues you already have, right?

 

[toyrunner95]

oh no the engine in the one that i WANT to buy, isnt blown. its being rebuilt but the guy is low on cash, the problem with MY truck is that it was in a wreck and the frame is messed up. but i didnt know that when i bought it. the truck has other eletrical issues. honestly it would be hard to sell. there is about $4500 worth of parts on it that are pratically brand new. since im at college the truck hardly gets driven. the suspension is really weird, havent gotten around to fixing that whole mess yet. it would really be easier and most likely cheaper to swap out the parts. the problem i could have is finding a decent starting platform. i really need to look at the one that i know of.

as for the second gen, i had one. motor did blow, it was a VERY comfy truck to drive, it had a better ride with the 4in lift that in did stock. but the v6 was a POS. i wish i still had that truck. the reason i like the 89 is because its pratically the same as the 84... just.... better. removeable top. TONS of aftermarket, easier to SAS (if i keep the 35s i will have to do one, i really like my brand new 35s) plus the 89 has more trunk space if i take out the back seat. O and its on a frame. i likes thats.

 

[DaveInDenver]

OK, if you know your decision, why did you ask? Nothing wrong with the 1st gen 4Runners, they are really cool. But I'm just a fan of the 1989-1995 trucks, I think Toyota really hit the mark with them. A pretty fair balance of old simplicity and modern stuff. Toyota figured out how to rustproof things by then but hadn't yet gone silly Americanizing them like newer years. In the end, you can't go wrong with pretty much any 1984 through 1995 4Runner in good shape. A lot of options and good value.

Not to be too abrasive, but please, please, please, if you want to be a teacher learn to use punctuation, proper spelling, capitalization and complete sentences! I usually have to read your posts a few times to get the whole thought, man.

 

[toyrunner95]

Yeah, sorry about that. I'm growing up in the age of spell check and alot of the little things get by me because i am used to word changing them for me. You are right though, i type really fast and i mess up alot of words, plus my spelling is horrible to begin with.

I haven't made up my mind, i know it sounds like it but i really haven't. Realistically it is not just about function. It is about form as well. I would like something that screams unique. Not just another lifted toyota. I am trying to use Scott's chriteria for an expedition vehicle, small, low impact, light (relitively), functional, storage space, and OK gas milage (hopefully this won't be my daily driver).

I'm trying to get by with quality at a decent price. My parents lost the keys to my current truck so on top of it being really home brew, it doesn't have keys. It would be really hard to sell in its shape. I am figuring, why not cut my losses as a learning experience and move on to a cleaner project that i can use what i have learned and apply it to something new. I really like things that look professional and I am getting pretty good at fabricating things that look well done. Personally i am not the kind of guy that will buy everything bolt on. That to me seems like the easy way out. I have ideas that i wanted to use on my current truck, but with the shape that it is in, i would spend more money trying to fix it. With a new part here and there it makes other things seem out of place. Hense why i am moving on to another project. I wanted to abandon toyota all together, but i just cant deny their dependability. My 84 always starts! only once did it not start after it died, but that was a simple bad connection. My 95 4runner on the other hand was in the shop every 6 months for a new battery, and every year for a starter. I have known three with the exact same problem and we can't figure out what it is. So far the only solution is a chevy 4.3 in its place.

An xj would be cool, but i am leery of the unibody as i said before, plus they dont have alot of storage. Also there are only a few select years that things were done right. It seems that jeep gets on the right track but then they change one vital thing that makes them kinda faulty. A 4runner is pratically a truck with a canopy that came with it.

I am asking this whole thing because im wondering if it's a better choice, i dont have a set of chriteria that it has to pass in order be worthy. But any vehicle could be possible. My 6 main points are, economics (i.e. how cheap it is to turn into a expedition vehicle.) functionality, reliability, capability, uniqueness (might not be a word), and capacity. Toyota gets its fair vote because i already have a bunch of parts for it, which helps the economic part. A 89 4runner is about 2k, a jeep that meets this chriteria is 99-2001, and about 5k at its cheapest.

Again sorry if this seems pointless. I just want something that i wont regret after 3 years.

 

[Hltoppr]

I think you need to be very careful about trading one homebrew project for another homebrew project, when you really just need a good, reliable; efficient daily driver. How about keeping the truck as the backwoods rig and buying a new(er) Subaru when you get the job out of school? Or...I'd sell the 84 for what you can get and use the $$ for a down payment on a late model Runner or Tacoma.

Bolt on stuff isn't bad, when you want to spend all your free time exploring; rather than wrenching...trust me...I've been there. Only now, 10 years after finishing grad school, am I really able to have a "project" rig...and have the time and money to work on it when I feel like it...not having to rely on it to get to work, etc.

Hope that helps.

-H-

BTW....Isn't it the "road" less traveled?

 

[toyrunner95]

CRAP! yeah it's road, typed that fast too.

The suby is a great daily driver, it's an 03 and i bought it in 06, so it has many years ahead of it. I think it still has less that 100k on it. I would buy a newer truck, but i really don't like payments. Especially for a fun truck, that would me like making payments on a house that is condemned. I am open to your opinions, i know i keep shooting them down but everything is taken into consideration. I may end up with a newer 95 4runner again, who knows, or a vw baja bug.

 

[jh504]

I was right where you are 4 months ago. I am a Toyota guy all the way. I totaled my 2001 Tacoma and the next vehicle I bought was going to be an expedition build. I was torn between the 1st gen 4runners and an XJ because of price. I constantly turned down outstanding deals on XJs to hold out for a decent 4runner. It never happened. I found my 96 XJ in wonderful grocery getter shape, and already halfway through a build for $2300. Impossible to find a 1st gen 4runner in as good of shape for that price. Now about the unibody thing. I know alot of guys who have been wheeling there XJs HARD for a LONG time with no added support to the unibody and they are still out showing the Toyotas how to flex. So unless your planning on building a rock crawler I wouldnt worry about the unibody issue (and I got crap from my Toyota friends too about the unibody, dont listen to them). Just my two cents.

 

[toyrunner95]

Gooooooood point. Prices are comperable here on the west coast though. It's fairly easy to find a decent (IMO) 4runner. Not pristine with new car smell, but good enough for what i want to do.

 

[jh504]

Gooooooood point. Prices are comperable here on the west coast though. It's fairly easy to find a decent (IMO) 4runner. Not pristine with new car smell, but good enough for what i want to do.

Wow, I wish that were the case here. Every 1st gen 4runner I have looked at for around $3500 or less is beat to heck. Actually over here to find any older 4x4 Toyota that hasnt been used as someones hunting/mud truck for years is such a nice find they usually want a crazy amount of money for it. I looked at a 93 4x4 Toyota truck the other day with 280000 on it and dents all down the side for $5,500. So maybe finding a good 4runner isnt a bad idea for you.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Wow, I wish that were the case here. Every 1st gen 4runner I have looked at for around $3500 or less is beat to heck. Actually over here to find any older 4x4 Toyota that hasnt been used as someones hunting/mud truck for years is such a nice find they usually want a crazy amount of money for it. I looked at a 93 4x4 Toyota truck the other day with 280000 on it and dents all down the side for $5,500. So maybe finding a good 4runner isnt a bad idea for you.

Yeah, it's safe to say Toyota trucks are common in the western US. Right now $5500 would get you a very nice 1995 or older anything with low miles. You can even get an early first generation Tacoma or decent enough FJ40s and FJ60s for $5500. A beater pickup might be $1500 and it'll run fine. There are two Toyota-only junk yards in Denver alone, a Cruiser only yard up in Salida (in the mountains) and tons of Toyota only shops all around.

 

[toyrunner95]

Yep toyotas are pretty prevelant over here. However; i live in a wet climate, which hinders things a bit. But its still do-able. i was thinking about what dave said about a truck. it wouldent be hard to find one. Actually i know of one right now that has a brand new motor. Has some dents in the fender but nothing real bad. wonder if he wants to sell it. hmmm.

 

[toyrunner95]

Ok so i have been doing some research and still havent decided on a toyota. I have decided however that a toyota would be the best idea. Now i need to pick one. I am weighing the differences between a 4runner and a truck. Now for the 4runner i woulden't want a second generation, i plan on doing an SAS and the second generations are too heavy in the rear, i have helped build too and they wont stay level. As for trucks, i like the single cab short bed, but it seems that the extended cabs are much more prevelant, plus it would give me some room to move in the cab and store stuff like jackets and camera gear.


Anyone here run an extended cab, like oldsven and baja taco? I really like their rigs. Are they longer wheelbase wise than a double cab? What are the drawbacks?

 

[Grim Reaper]

Ok so i have been doing some research and still havent decided on a toyota. I have decided however that a toyota would be the best idea. Now i need to pick one. I am weighing the differences between a 4runner and a truck. Now for the 4runner i woulden't want a second generation, i plan on doing an SAS and the second generations are too heavy in the rear, i have helped build too and they wont stay level. As for trucks, i like the single cab short bed, but it seems that the extended cabs are much more prevelant, plus it would give me some room to move in the cab and store stuff like jackets and camera gear.


Anyone here run an extended cab, like oldsven and baja taco? I really like their rigs. Are they longer wheelbase wise than a double cab? What are the drawbacks?

Huh?


Where are you getting those weights?
1st gen IFS front is Identical to 2nd Gen. All the suspension parts are interchangeable.

The 2nd gen 4 Door is maybe 150lb more weight then first with the same engine combo. 1st gen IFS Curb is like 3700 and second gen 4 door is 3825 (from KBB). Its mostly the rear doors that make for the added weight. A second Gen 2 door is probably the same weight maybe less then a 1st gen. That hard top is heavier then you would think on a 1st gen.


Honestly I am sort of regretting the 1st gen. I have never take off the top. I have kids so the second gen really is what I should have got. Yeah the coil rear is harder to make flex but on the road its a better ride and it doesn't have axle wrap issues like my 1st gen.

Hell I could be talked out of my totally gone through 86 with rebuilt everything in the last 10k. for $3k minus my e-locker wheels and tires. It would be back on 4.10's and 235 75's.
I'm really tempted by a 92-95 and drop a 4.3 Vortec in it.

 

[jh504]

Huh?


Where are you getting those weights?
1st gen IFS front is Identical to 2nd Gen. All the suspension parts are interchangeable.

The 2nd gen 4 Door is maybe 150lb more weight then first with the same engine combo. 1st gen IFS Curb is like 3700 and second gen 4 door is 3825 (from KBB). Its mostly the rear doors that make for the added weight. A second Gen 2 door is probably the same weight maybe less then a 1st gen. That hard top is heavier then you would think on a 1st gen.


Honestly I am sort of regretting the 1st gen. I have never take off the top. I have kids so the second gen really is what I should have got. Yeah the coil rear is harder to make flex but on the road its a better ride and it doesn't have axle wrap issues like my 1st gen.

Hell I could be talked out of my totally gone through 86 with rebuilt everything in the last 10k. for $3k minus my e-locker wheels and tires. It would be back on 4.10's and 235 75's.
I'm really tempted by a 92-95 and drop a 4.3 Vortec in it.

Sorry to hi jack, but how much would you want for it with the locker in place? Got some pics?