DI v.s DII

With my beloved DII retired to the easy life in Denver Colorado, I find myself Land Rover less. As much as I love the simplicity of my little Jeep JK, I'm not so in love with car payments and it's overall lack in creature comforts, cargo/passenger space and maybe most importantly it doesn't have that land rover feel. So the question is if I go for the DI am I able to rely on it more in the backcountry and not have to chant the mantra of my DII "It's not broken, it's British"?
 

Ray_G

Explorer
Subjective question that is totally dependent upon the specific vehicle vice the model line really, some would say the 94-95 D1 with the 3.9, dizzy, etc is the most 'reliable' b/c it is the least complex but you could counter that and say a 04 DII w/100k less miles is far more reliable than a beat up 10yr older Disco.

I keep coming back to the notion that reliance is a facet of ability to overcome the problems, and thus your ability to fix the vehicle in question is the biggest driver. I know for me I've only had my D1(s) leave me stranded one time in the backcountry and that was when my clutch grenaded in a streambed (and I was with a group and thus driving to wheel vice driving as I would were I alone).

Having never had a DII, and now on my 3rd DI, I'd say give it a try-by most accounts they are a different ride and you can get a D1 cheap-just gotta find one that isn't trashed.
r-
Ray
 

dcwhybrew

Adventurer
Get as new of a DII as possible and enjoy it. As with all Land Rovers, check it over carefully or have a mechanic check it out thoroughly. Reliability of D1 vs D2 is a very subjective debate, similar to what's the best tire, etc. I say DII because getting something newer, with greater probability of less mileage, and potentially fewer issues. There is the general consensus that the BOSCH engine management was better than the GEMS, therefore the D2s were perhaps more reliable. Again, opinions.
 

evilfij

Explorer
If I had to be stuck out in the middle of no where, I would feel most comfortable getting and keeping a 14CUX truck going.
 

Green96D1

Explorer
a 1995 Discovery with the 3.9 and 5spd in Expo white would be the best combo for a Disco. 3.9 simpler the 5spd is more robust than the autos and the white is just so beautiful on the discovery both one and two.

with that all being said i have a 1997 with the 4.0 and slushbox and really can say its been reliable for me.
 

Fivespddisco

Supporting Sponsor
Having played with them both, The D1 96-99 computer has failed me a few times and the fuel pump always scares me. The D2 has not let me down but I think it is more the truck you get then the year.
 

Snagger

Explorer
I have witnessed the rear EAS of a seven seat DII fail catastrophically on an expedition - an air bag ripped from top to bottom and they could only limp on the bump stops between the camp sites on road, missing all the off road tracks through the mountains until repaired a few days later. They retro fitted HD coil springs to avoid any chances of a repeat and the other EAS equipped DII's owners spent the next fortnight crapping themselves they were next. I think EAS on an expedition vehicle is a very bad thing, and the trip leaders said they had seen six or seven such failures in the five years they had been running their trips, but had never seen a leaf or coil spring problem... These seven seat DIIs also have another complex suspension system up front called Active Cornering Enhancement, which is a hydraulically actuated anti-roll (sway) bar, which has its own compressors, reservoir, hydraulic lines and actuator. A full set of curly metal springs has got to be better in the middle of nowhere...

The TD5 engine also uses a dual mass flywheel and un-sprung clutch to make the engine run more smoothly. These are expensive, a ***** to fit in the field compared to sprung clutch plates with solid flywheels and much, much more prone to failure. LR provide a TD5 retrofit kit to convert the dual mass flywheel back to a simpler, more robust solid unit with conventional clutch plates.

While the Defender TD5 engine is pretty reliable, the Discovery version is more highly tuned and runs at higher boost pressure with longer peak boost times. This takes its toll on the head and manifolds, often warping both and shearing the manifold studs.

The DI uses easily replaceable wheel bearings and suspension bushes, but the DII's bearings are integral to the suspension components, so are not field replaceable unless you take large suspension components for each corner, rather than a small and cheap wheel bearing kit.

Then there's the engine management - a TD5 is ECU controlled, whereas a Tdi is mechanical (some later ones had a minor electronic bundle on the fuel pump associated with immobilisers and cruise control, but you could find a vehicle without one or retrofit a simpler injection pump. The EGR valve is also controled by a potentiometer on the injection pump, and that can be simply disconnected. So, make up a plug-in bypass connector to over-ride a failed alarm/immobiliser ECU and you have in a DI a vehicle that is no susceptible in any way to electronics failures...

Both use the R380 or ZF 4-speed coupled with the LT230, but the DII uses ETC brakes in place of the DI's centre diff lock. It doesn't perform as well, saps power when slipping and chews up your brakes. The DII LT230 can be made to have a locking diff, but I hear conflicting reports as to whether it's just the lever connections that are missing or the entire mechanism.

For all that, though, the DII body shells seem better constructed and are a bit more comfortable. I like the DII, well enough, especially the face-lifted 2003/4 model, but I'd get a good 300Tdi model every time.
 

dcwhybrew

Adventurer
I have witnessed the rear EAS of a seven seat DII fail catastrophically on an expedition - an air bag ripped from top to bottom and they could only limp on the bump stops between the camp sites on road, missing all the off road tracks through the mountains until repaired a few days later. They retro fitted HD coil springs to avoid any chances of a repeat and the other EAS equipped DII's owners spent the next fortnight crapping themselves they were next. I think EAS on an expedition vehicle is a very bad thing, and the trip leaders said they had seen six or seven such failures in the five years they had been running their trips, but had never seen a leaf or coil spring problem... These seven seat DIIs also have another complex suspension system up front called Active Cornering Enhancement, which is a hydraulically actuated anti-roll (sway) bar, which has its own compressors, reservoir, hydraulic lines and actuator. A full set of curly metal springs has got to be better in the middle of nowhere...

The TD5 engine also uses a dual mass flywheel and un-sprung clutch to make the engine run more smoothly. These are expensive, a ***** to fit in the field compared to sprung clutch plates with solid flywheels and much, much more prone to failure. LR provide a TD5 retrofit kit to convert the dual mass flywheel back to a simpler, more robust solid unit with conventional clutch plates.

While the Defender TD5 engine is pretty reliable, the Discovery version is more highly tuned and runs at higher boost pressure with longer peak boost times. This takes its toll on the head and manifolds, often warping both and shearing the manifold studs.

The DI uses easily replaceable wheel bearings and suspension bushes, but the DII's bearings are integral to the suspension components, so are not field replaceable unless you take large suspension components for each corner, rather than a small and cheap wheel bearing kit.

Then there's the engine management - a TD5 is ECU controlled, whereas a Tdi is mechanical (some later ones had a minor electronic bundle on the fuel pump associated with immobilisers and cruise control, but you could find a vehicle without one or retrofit a simpler injection pump. The EGR valve is also controled by a potentiometer on the injection pump, and that can be simply disconnected. So, make up a plug-in bypass connector to over-ride a failed alarm/immobiliser ECU and you have in a DI a vehicle that is no susceptible in any way to electronics failures...

Both use the R380 or ZF 4-speed coupled with the LT230, but the DII uses ETC brakes in place of the DI's centre diff lock. It doesn't perform as well, saps power when slipping and chews up your brakes. The DII LT230 can be made to have a locking diff, but I hear conflicting reports as to whether it's just the lever connections that are missing or the entire mechanism.

For all that, though, the DII body shells seem better constructed and are a bit more comfortable. I like the DII, well enough, especially the face-lifted 2003/4 model, but I'd get a good 300Tdi model every time.

To the OP, not all DIIs had the rear EAS. Most did not have them. The TD5 information is interesting but not relevant to a US application and a 300TDi conversion is expensive (you indicated you didnt like car payments, so I am assuming that money is a significant factor). If you can afford it/want to spend the money, I would suggest an LR3. They have proven to be significantly more reliable than any LR product made. Of the 7 LRs I have owned (1 D1, 2 D2s, 1 P38 RR, 1 RRC, 2 LR3s) the LR3s have been VERY reliable compared to the others.
 

Snagger

Explorer
To the OP, not all DIIs had the rear EAS. Most did not have them. The TD5 information is interesting but not relevant to a US application and a 300TDi conversion is expensive (you indicated you didnt like car payments, so I am assuming that money is a significant factor). If you can afford it/want to spend the money, I would suggest an LR3. They have proven to be significantly more reliable than any LR product made. Of the 7 LRs I have owned (1 D1, 2 D2s, 1 P38 RR, 1 RRC, 2 LR3s) the LR3s have been VERY reliable compared to the others.

As I said, it is the 7-seat model of the DII that has rear EAS and front ACE - the 5-seaters have coil springs all round, which is much better for overland use.

I assumed that you could get 300Tdi DIs out there, but if they're all V8, while much nicer to drive and respectably reliable, it'd be fairly thirsty and the ignition is not terribly easy to make fully water-proof - the V8 is a particularly water sensitive petrol engine.

The D3, aka LR3 is an extremely unreliable car, like the RR Sport it shares so many systems with. they have a 65% chance of complete break down in their first year according to the JD power survey and are one of the most reliably unreliable cars on UK roads. The front suspension arms seem to be very weak, the smallest accidents or bumps ripping off the front's lower wish bones and they go through suspension bushes quickly, which are not replaceable (the whole suspension arms have to be replaced), the electronics play up and they are prone to problems with several suspension and engine systems. Clutch replacement is hugely expensive as the body has to be removed from the chassis to gain access. I wouldn't run one if it was given to me unless it was under full warranty, and I get rid of it before that expired. I would never under any circumstances buy a LR 3 or 4 or a RRS. I am on a friendly relationship with my local LR specialist - they let me use their tools and equipment and give me special deals on parts and labour. One of their mechanics is a close personal friend and was just here for tea on his way home. they all hate the D3 and RRS for their poor reliability and terrible design for maintenance, though they respect the vehicles' capabilities. The amount of D3s that I see in their work shops with problem after problem is truly shocking. To be fair, though, their bodies and cabins are better built with less rattles, rain leaks and rust.
 
Last edited:

greenrover

New member
Incorrect on 04 DII SE7

Many came with coils, not EAS, or ACE, including mine. If you can find one, go for it.

Dave
 

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