Diagnosing a slipped or cracked liner

[AKRover]

So I have been looking at this 2000 DiscoII that the owners were told has a slipped or cracked liner. The mechanic that made that diagnosis did so without even turning a wrench. Is it possible to tell the difference between a liner problem and a head gasket without removing the heads?

Also, I found a 4.6L from a low milage 2003 Disco that I was thinking about putting in the 2000 if it needed a motor. I talked to the guy at the junkyard today about it and he said that his notes say the engine had a "slight lifter noise" when it was removed. Could a slight lifter noise be mistaken for a slipped liner? Isn't the liner problem more prevalent in the 4.6L engine?



The plan with the 2000 Disco was to pick it up for cheap and pull the heads off to find out what the problem is. If it needs head head gaskets then I would replace them if it needed a motor I was going to put in the used 4.6. Now that I find out the 4.6 may have an issue too I'm kind of re-thinking my plan. There aren't a whole lot of engines around here for me to choose from and I don't want to roll the dice on two engines that might have issues.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Hey Noah-
Sorry, I can't help you there, since I've done nothing internal on that engine.
You talked to Eddie A. about finding a block if you need one? Even now, he seems to have connections to find cheap vehicles.

I thought you had a Disco I. Why the change?

-Mike (UstabeBob on Alaska4x4network.com)

 

[Michael Slade]

Here's the deal with the slipped liner:

One of Salt Lake's most reputable independent Land Rover garages diagnosed my 4.2 with a slipped liner. He gave me a HUGE repair bill that I could NOT afford. I said 'F-U' after hearing his unreasonable assessment and had the car flat-bedded back to my garage.

I was faced with his incredible mess of a dissasembly job and nothing was marked.

I looked at the block with the pistons and liners staring at me and wondered if he was lying to me and trying to steal my $. I figured it was worth a look-see, and proceeded to do a LOT of measuring.

Here is a thread on Pirate where I discuss the problem and start to get answers to my questions. I dont' know why the pictures aren't showing up...

Diagnosis on Pirate 4x4

And...once I got the heads machined I then turned to the infamous headgasket debate. You can read about it in this next thread from Pirate.

Headgasket thread.

So, the long and the short of it is this. If your mechanic hasn't turned a wrench on it I'd call his bluff. How in the hell can you diagnose a slipped liner w/out even seeing it? The guy that tried to rip me off had the heads off and could SEE the liners and told me there sere multiples that had slipped. None were.

I've driven that truck for 5 years now after fixing it w/out any engine problems.

I say he's smoking crack and trying to get you to pay for it. Good luck.

FWIW I wouldn't touch a 2003 DII engine with a ten-foot pole. They have a known problem with the gaskets and block machining from the factory and dozens...maybe hundreds of engines have blown. There is a TSB from LR that states the only repair option is to remove and replace the ENTIRE engine.

So I have been looking at this 2000 DiscoII that the owners were told has a slipped or cracked liner. The mechanic that made that diagnosis did so without even turning a wrench. Is it possible to tell the difference between a liner problem and a head gasket without removing the heads?

Also, I found a 4.6L from a low milage 2003 Disco that I was thinking about putting in the 2000 if it needed a motor. I talked to the guy at the junkyard today about it and he said that his notes say the engine had a "slight lifter noise" when it was removed. Could a slight lifter noise be mistaken for a slipped liner? Isn't the liner problem more prevalent in the 4.6L engine?



The plan with the 2000 Disco was to pick it up for cheap and pull the heads off to find out what the problem is. If it needs head head gaskets then I would replace them if it needed a motor I was going to put in the used 4.6. Now that I find out the 4.6 may have an issue too I'm kind of re-thinking my plan. There aren't a whole lot of engines around here for me to choose from and I don't want to roll the dice on two engines that might have issues.

 

[benlittle]

Mike is right. There isn't any way to tell if a liner is slipped if he hasn't looked. I would tear that **** down and rebuild/ resurface the heads.

BUT, even if you do that I would go a step further. Pull it and have it die tested. If I had done that one step, I could have saved myself a lot of time when building my old Rangie. In my case the engine had been heated up. A lot. I knew the heads were warped. I had them totally rebuilt. Buttoned up the engine and BAM. My oil pan filled up with coolant again. At that point, I'm thinking I must have f'd up the gasket or something putting it back together. Sooo, being the genius I am, I tore the whole thing down and did it again. I thoroughly inspected the block/ liners etc and I couldn't see ****. I built it back up again, new gaskets/ bolts etc. Same damn problem. During that time I also did a head gasket on my DII with zero issues.

Looking back what I should have done before I started on anything was PULL THE ENGINE and have it die tested. I'm pretty damn sure that block was cracked someplace. I ordered another short block and built it on a stand. No more issues.

 

[muskyman]

the bottom line is the only way to tell if the liner has "slipped" or there is a breach in the block at the liner is to remove the heads and pressure test the block. This is very easy to do but the heads must be off to do it...no short cuts here sorry.

 

[AKRover]

I wasn't wanting to take any short cuts, I was just wondering if there was some magic way to diagnose a liner that I didn't know about that this other mechanic did.

The vehicle runs and drives and I'm going to go and take another look at it today. It has no coolant in it though so I can't run it very long but for the short time that I can it seems to run pretty good.

UstabeBob - I have a white 95 RRC that I intend to keep I just am looking for another vehicle. I was going to give Ed a call today if I have time and see if he knows anything. Most of the stuff he has been dealing with is the Disco I and RRC stuff.

One of Salt Lake's most reputable independent Land Rover garages diagnosed my 4.2 with a slipped liner. He gave me a HUGE repair bill that I could NOT afford. I said 'F-U' after hearing his unreasonable assessment and had the car flat-bedded back to my garage.

That's exactly what happened to these people but nothing was taken apart.

 

[AKRover]

Here is another question.

Will the bottom end from a 99 Range Rover 4.6L work as a swap or is the 99 a GEMS motor?

 

[JSQ]

At a minimum pull the heads.
While Ben and Thom are correct you normally need to die or pressure test to conclusively differentiate between a slipped sleeve and what seems to be a head gasket leak, your answer might be apparent without doing so. I've seen a number of blocks where the sleeve had moved sufficiently that you could actually feel a big gap when you dragged a point over it. Obviously if you can physically observe that the liner has dropped you needn't bother going further.

Rob is right to point out just how little of your time a 2000ish Disco2 is worth. These trucks are gong for $2500 at auction here. I couldn't be convinced that any stocker was worth the time and effort of an engine replacement. I'd just go get another truck. In fact, even if I had a trail truck with lots of bolt-ons I'd just pick up another one, swap the **** over and sell the original as a parts machine.

If you do insist on doing a block, don't get a new one. Take a suitable donor and have it machined for top-hat liners. Not only will this likely be cheaper, but you'll actually have some assurance that you won't have the same problem all over again in a matter of months.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Or, if you have a nice truck and want to end your V8 engine troubles...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-17801268/

:victory:

Well, then you'll probably have transmission troubles...

 

[JSQ]

BTW, any Bosch Rover V8 is likely to have a fair amount of ticking noise. I wouldn't sweat it.
If it really bothers you, run a heavier weight motor oil.

 

[GregH]

If you do insist on doing a block, don't get a new one. Take a suitable donor and have it machined for top-hat liners. Not only will this likely be cheaper, but you'll actually have some assurance that you won't have the same problem all over again in a matter of months.

Now there's some good advice.

Get a seasoned 4.6 block for cheap and have it re-cylindered with top-hat liners by a reputable machine shop. Remember, Zyglo for aluminum.

 

[AKRover]

I called her today and told her I was passing on it. There is a chance that it dosn't need a new block but if it did the fact that there isn't one easily avalible makes me not very excited about it.

Oh well. At least I learned a little bit for next time. Thanks for all the input.

 

[azlandrover]

leaking liner

Leaking cylinder liners are common on all of the Land Rover V8 engines.
If the engine is consuming coolant, pressurizing the cooling system (bulging hoses, pressure in recovery tank after engine is cold), cooling problems such as overheating, you probably have a leaking liner.

Turner Engineering in the U.K. manufactures blocks with special liners with flanges to eliminate this problem.

Check out this video on you tube to see a leaking liner-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Ey...32603&feature=player_embedded#watch-main-area

 

[sgaynor]

The vehicle runs and drives and I'm going to go and take another look at it today. It has no coolant in it though so I can't run it very long but for the short time that I can it seems to run pretty good.

What do you mean by it runs/drives but has no coolant? Does it lose it super fast? build pressure? etc? Did it overheat? (if so, then yeah, slipped liners are very likely)

Saw in the latest post that you passed cause you don't have a donor engine? Man, don't write off the engine; I don't know how it could be diagnosed with slipped liner if the heads havent even been pulled (unless it significantly overheated).