Diesel heater in a four wheel camper?

[dcoy]

I have an Espar D4 in my FWC Hawk Flatbed. As the truck is Diesel, it makes a lot of sense to have a diesel heater. The downside was that the Espar seems to be quite finicky and complicated. We went from a D2 to a D4 as we kept on getting error codes and poor performance from the D2. The D4 did great until we started getting error codes and then it started smoking. Replaced the ECU and I am hoping it will be reliable from here on out. Between our old Volkswagen Jetta, my FJ Cruiser manual tranny (made in Germany for some reason) and now this, I am sort of done with German tech.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

yes I will be installing a chines diesel heater in mine also. I was just hoping to get some ideas on how people ran the fresh air intake and exhaust out. Im also planning on leaving the fuel tank and fuel pump on the outside for ease of fill up for the diesel and no fumes on the inside. The fuel pump outside also for noise.

There are some pretty cool exhaust options made for marine use, and almost all are good quality stainless. As for the intake, that could also be a similar type of fitting, but I am not sure about that one.

Just a quick example of what I am talking about. I am looking at doing this for my camper if I manage to find space to fit one! heh

Stainless Exhaust

 

[Vst]

There are some pretty cool exhaust options made for marine use, and almost all are good quality stainless. As for the intake, that could also be a similar type of fitting, but I am not sure about that one.

Just a quick example of what I am talking about. I am looking at doing this for my camper if I manage to find space to fit one! heh

Stainless Exhaust

That’s a nice piece. I’m wondering could you just leave the fresh air intake in the camper with out running it outside?

 

[Victorian]

I have an Espar D4 in my FWC Hawk Flatbed. As the truck is Diesel, it makes a lot of sense to have a diesel heater. The downside was that the Espar seems to be quite finicky and complicated. We went from a D2 to a D4 as we kept on getting error codes and poor performance from the D2. The D4 did great until we started getting error codes and then it started smoking. Replaced the ECU and I am hoping it will be reliable from here on out. Between our old Volkswagen Jetta, my FJ Cruiser manual tranny (made in Germany for some reason) and now this, I am sort of done with German tech.

I'm German and proud of the countries manufacturing capabilities. But I have to agree, German made diesel heaters are way over engineered. Before settling on purchasing a Planar, I did a lot of reading on German forums and the amount of issues people had with Espar and Webastos totally turned me off.
Now you have the Chinese knock offs (would never install one for many reasons) and you have Planar. Not saying you should buy from us but we have sold several hundred and seriously not a single customer has come back for replacement parts or serious issues. Go Planar, hands down.

 

[Vst]

I'm German and proud of the countries manufacturing capabilities. But I have to agree, German made diesel heaters are way over engineered. Before settling on purchasing a Planar, I did a lot of reading on German forums and the amount of issues people had with Espar and Webastos totally turned me off.
Now you have the Chinese knock offs (would never install one for many reasons) and you have Planar. Not saying you should buy from us but we have sold several hundred and seriously not a single customer has come back for replacement parts or serious issues. Go Planar, hands down.

Just took look at your website a lot of quality stuff. I just don’t get the price variants I get it the Chinese heaters aren’t going to be the best quality but I don’t see the other brands being worth 10x more in quality. But I could be wrong

 

[Victorian]

Just took look at your website a lot of quality stuff. I just don’t get the price variants I get it the Chinese heaters aren’t going to be the best quality but I don’t see the other brands being worth 10x more in quality. But I could be wrong

well… the Chinese use crappy materials, don’t have to certify anything and have way less overhead with dumping wages. Planar, webasto, espar also put tons of effort in development and research. therefore it’s not fair to question the pricing of the quality heaters.

 

[VanIsle_Greg]

That’s a nice piece. I’m wondering could you just leave the fresh air intake in the camper with out running it outside?

As mentioned above, you probably could... but I think you will be better served to get your fresh air for the combustion outside. Simple enough to poke another hole in your nicely sealed and water tight camper...lol. I personally would get it from outside, to stop it from stealing the heated air from my inside space, which in my case is really really small.

 

[grindmonkey]

Victorian,

I think it is always fair to question the pricing of products especially when there is competition so much less expensive. I agree that there is a pretty large delta in price between the chinese and "top 3" brands. However, price is not always a good indicator of quality and product suitability. In many cases the planar heater is less expensive than the other 2 "top 3" brands but seems to have a better record (at least from my experience). I believe that the influx of chinese heaters (for better or worse) helps to keep honest brokers in pricing of the established companies. At the same time it can allow the established companies to truly show how they are superior both in terms of product capabilities, design, features, and sales/after sales support.

I would not install a chinese heater into an actual camper space due to many of the items that have been mentioned (lack of certification, questions regarding material quality, no support/warranty). I may use one in an outdoor tent type (ice fishing, hunting, etc) setting where I want less risk of damaging an expensive item but want to move away from the propane Mr buddy heater.

On the original topic, do you have much correspondence with individuals who have installed the planar into pop top campers? For a FWC, Hallmark, etc which model would you recommend, the 2d?

 

[Victorian]

Victorian,

I think it is always fair to question the pricing of products especially when there is competition so much less expensive. I agree that there is a pretty large delta in price between the chinese and "top 3" brands. However, price is not always a good indicator of quality and product suitability. In many cases the planar heater is less expensive than the other 2 "top 3" brands but seems to have a better record (at least from my experience). I believe that the influx of chinese heaters (for better or worse) helps to keep honest brokers in pricing of the established companies. At the same time it can allow the established companies to truly show how they are superior both in terms of product capabilities, design, features, and sales/after sales support.

I would not install a chinese heater into an actual camper space due to many of the items that have been mentioned (lack of certification, questions regarding material quality, no support/warranty). I may use one in an outdoor tent type (ice fishing, hunting, etc) setting where I want less risk of damaging an expensive item but want to move away from the propane Mr buddy heater.

On the original topic, do you have much correspondence with individuals who have installed the planar into pop top campers? For a FWC, Hallmark, etc which model would you recommend, the 2d?

To be honest, we rarely know where the heaters getting installed. If you do 3 season camping, the 2D would be great. True winter camping I would recommend the 44D in a pop up. Downside is that the 44D will most likely be too much in the shoulder season. Don't forget, diesel heaters like to run hot. If you use the 44D on the lowest setting, that may not be good for it. Another option (very popular in Europe) is to install 2x 2D heaters for redundancy and higher output if needed.

Cheers,

 

[Herbie]

Downside is that the 44D will most likely be too much in the shoulder season. Don't forget, diesel heaters like to run hot. If you use the 44D on the lowest setting, that may not be good for it.

I don't think this can be overstated. Most (but not all) of the people I've seen have trouble with diesel heaters (ignoring the issues with bum units fresh from the factory) are down to fouling in the combustion chamber that can be attributed to the units being run "lightly". Lots of California folks using them to "take the edge off" a 35° night find that the thermostat keeps them cycling pretty rapidly (not much hysteresis in the temperature range), so they never get hot, resulting in lots of carbon that requires tear-down cleaning to regain function. They absolutely need to run hard to get hot enough to stay clean (think "Italian tune up"). Running kerosene vs. diesel supposedly helps, but you lose the "single-fuel" benefit so many folks are chasing.

 

[Vst]

After looking up the different options if the Planar is just as good as the espar or webasto I think I may go with them since they also have high altitude built in. Just gotta figure out where to mount it in the camper.

 

[Jonnyo]

After looking up the different options if the Planar is just as good as the espar or webasto I think I may go with them since they also have high altitude built in. Just gotta figure out where to mount it in the camper.

high altitude function is important if you are to use it at different level. i live near the mountains and use my chinese heater at different altitude and love the option of the chinese heater digital control to adjuste the fuel to air ratio to any altitude very quickly. for 200$CDN, it as given me 3 years of reliable heat and is such a quiet unit.

if i was going up to a brand name, i would get a planar... i like simple design...less can go wrong!

 

[ChrisDL1000CA]

What is the motivation for using diesel? Unless your truck is also diesel or you plan on using diesel for cooking (and hot water) it seems like added complexity for little benefit. Even the fancy diesel heaters (Webasto etc) tend to be less reliable than quality propane heaters, due to soot and increased complexity.

I was in 15 below temp the other night with frozen propane. Made for a frosty sleep. Coming to Wyoming/Colorado in the Winter would be my reason for changing out.

 

[Fivel]

I am about 90% finished installing an Espar D2 in my FWC Hawk shell Monday. The camper came with the stock Attwood propane furnace installed, which I immediately came to dislike. I ripped out the original furnace, and mounted the heater inside the same cabinet. I'll have to make a new outside access panel as I don't want to cut up the original one. I chose to plumb a separate tank so that I can use kerosene instead of road diesel, and for now avoid making any changes to my truck fuel system. I did a couple short test runs of the D2 to make sure things worked, then spent the night in the camper with overnight low temp about 11 deg F outside. I found the D2's performance acceptable in all ways, but it wasn't the completely perfect experience some people seem to report (not referring to anyone in this thread! I read hundreds of reviews before pulling the trigger). Supposedly the new D2s have much quieter fuel pumps. I've never heard another one, and mine is definitely noticeable but I'll have no trouble sleeping through it. Also, supposedly the new controllers (or maybe the new optional upgrade controllers?) have some altitude compensating function good up to about 9000ft or 9900ft. I can say firsthand that it seems to work just fine at about 700ft in my driveway.
Everything is a tradeoff so to each their own, but here's a little of my perspective:

Things I like:
+Single fuel source if needed (diesel truck) - although I'm going to try to run kerosene in the heater for now.
+No more propane required for my camper.
+Much more energy-dense fuel, so I can keep a lot more fuel onboard in the same volume of storage space.
+High heat output.
+Much smaller physical dimensions.
+German engineering, especially in the controller which is what I will interact with the most. Apparently this can be a pro or con but I like the look/feel/sense of quality.
+Lower electrical draw than the original.

Things I dislike:
-Very expensive, especially considering it replaces something that nominally does the exact same thing.
-The Espar kit is great but I'll end up spending even more to finish the install the way I want it (separate fuel tank, heat control stuff for the exhaust, modifications to the cabinet, etc).
-Kind of loud. I don't have the muffler hooked up yet, but the combustion intake is actually pretty loud, even before ignition happens. Probably a little louder than the stock heater in a couple different ways.
-The exhaust is very very hot. I am keeping the heater inside the inside cabinets, but I am realizing the exhaust contacting flammable things inside is a significant safety risk that will have to be addressed.

 

[Vst]

I ended up just going with a Chinese heater need to do some testing with it still