Diesel Phasing Out?

[Deleted member 9101]

Those of you that think that just banning older diesels are the answer forget that there are people that are affected. I know a number of truck drivers and over half are independent. And guys that are driving the older diesels are in the lower half of the economic spectrum. The only solution I see here is punishment: You are going to be frozen out of lucrative markets <or> you must submit to corporate masters <or> become a slave to a banker.

Maybe before we label someone as mentally defective or reactionary we should 'walk a mile in their moccasins'. Others don't come at a problem with your life experiences or beliefs. And all of us will react negatively to anything that hurts our families and friends.

We as a society should be incentivizing people who want to work, instead the only solutions I see are 'the beatings will continue until the environment improves'.

Lol... Diesels, especially older ones, are directly responsible for low air quality in metropolitan areas. Their particulates are a respiratory irritant and they are also carcinogenic.

 

[Paddler Ed]

What if this is the opportunity for a shift in transport modes and requirements.

We're seeing onshoring at an unprecedented level now, and therefore a reduction in imports. This means less coming into the cargo terminals, and more produced "locally". If this continues, then the hub and spoke model for much distribution will change.

Secondly, could a shift to more efficient bulk transport occur? What if it was a shift to double stacked containers on the rail network to move bulk and volume? Still would be hub and spoke, but move the bigger distances with a kilometre long train.

Once that's moved to the hub, yes it may need decanting to a semi trailer, but that might be to the next node in the network. From there it's into the final 50mile range and that might be an EV 12 tonner or so, and that could get you into the city as needed to do the drops.

Coming back to the arguments about emission standards, yes, American pickups do have to meet standards but because of how they (and full size Suburbans etc) are classed, they don't IIRC have to meet car standards - they pass as a truck. Car standards are stricter generally, but the growth in demand for the pickups that don't meet that mean that the car fleet average for the Big 3 is staying fairly low... But if the pickups and Suburban-esque 4x4s were included as a representative range of sales to private users it would sky rocket. This I think is ultimately what they are trying to tackle with thesr sorts of proposals. Unfortunately, others get caught up in the same mess.

Solutions? I'd advocate some very big tax advantages for new vehicles, and scale those through over 5 years or so. The problem is that the lifespan on a truck chassis is pretty decent, so this will take time to trickle through. What you're trying to do is increase a supply of modern, compliant vehicles that then flow down to the small operators over time. The small guys don't have to outlay for the newest equipment, but there is a clear advantage in upgrading in time. This is very much what happened in the UK with a move to CO2 based road tax, at first it was too expensive for low income earners to get a car that had the lower tax, but over about a 6 year period it become a viable option, and now there's lots to choose from that are affordable and cheap to tax.

 

[blacklbzbeauty]

Yes everybody just reacts like it is a stupid idea to ban diesels, and just don't go there. Well that is a nice factual argument, and I am sure your diesel smells like flowers.

Old diesels pollute densely populated areas. So it makes sense to ban them.
You can talk about natural gas trucks or electric trucks, but it already helps to just use newer trucks with cleaner emissions.
Talking about how much lbs you need to pull and it won't work with natural gas is irrelevant, use a newer diesel truck.

Don't want to go to CA? Sure, mission accomplished, the older diesel vehicles are not coming.

But I am sure you will all find it BS, and that there has been no engine becoming cleaner in the past 20 years.
Sometimes I don't get you US guys. Lots of trouble about VW diesel fraud, which made sense, they were cheating. And then you have pickup trucks which don't have to comply to any of those rules because it is a different class.

You misunderstand my comment. I did not say there was not a logical, fact based argument to support his opinion, but that he did not present one before resorting to name calling and emotional rhetoric. Much as you have done above. That type of response will not lead to any constructive discussion that will lead to change.

 

[Snydmax]

I don’t understand why so few actually recognize that when you replace an “old “ vehicle with a new one, the embodied energy alone accounts for so many years of pollution with simply keeping the old one the road. These new regs are at least partly due to the lobbying of companies that sell trucks... new ones


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[Lovetheworld]

Uhhh... I hate to be the one to tell ya... But pickups absolutely have to comply with emission standards in the US. VW TDIs all the way to a Class 8 trucks have emission standards they have to meet.

I thought different emission classes. Like you have different safety classes for pickup trucks. (This is why a pedestrian unfriendly cybertruck could never be sold here in Europe for example)

Either way, VW couldnt get the fraud cars back on the road in the US. Here in Europe they also cheated, but with some changes could keep the cars on the road. Because we actually have a lower standard than US. Which I find sad.

You misunderstand my comment. I did not say there was not a logical, fact based argument to support his opinion, but that he did not present one before resorting to name calling and emotional rhetoric. Much as you have done above. That type of response will not lead to any constructive discussion that will lead to change.

All I am seeing is people calling it nonsense and saying not to go there. I am not name calling anybody.
I am just responding from a part of the world where this kind of legislation is already in place for a while, and it makes sense.
Hell, I think California does it better by doing the whole state. Here you have cities you can't get in but you can drive on the ring road around it.

I don’t understand why so few actually recognize that when you replace an “old “ vehicle with a new one, the embodied energy alone accounts for so many years of pollution with simply keeping the old one the road. These new regs are at least partly due to the lobbying of companies that sell trucks... new ones


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Do you understand the difference between local air quality for humans to breath in, and things like CO2 / green house gasses what you are referring to?

People, even many journalists / media, treat it as pretty much the same thing. But it is far from it, and they are usually in a fight with each other.
Keep the old car on the road so less green house gasses, but more polluted cities.

VW diesel schandal is the best example. Super efficient diesels, so that should be good right? But you can't get them clean enough.