Discussion about the expedition trailer customer... want Ritz Carlton on wheels or ??
- Thread starter ManleyORV
- Start date
TheThom
Adventurer
You could always make this kitchen module for one of your own personal trailers, making sure you document parts and time. Then offer it as an extra at a price that you know will be worth your while. If it isn't practical then you're left with your custom trailer, but not really out the large amount of money it would take to start this line and not have it sell.
My wife's a small business owner (professional photographer) and that's often how we reconcile doing things we aren't so sure about financially. Make it a win win to try it out for yourself.
I agree that modular is the way to go. It goes with that whole interchangeable parts thing that spurred the industrial revolution. Then you can keep selling trailers and if it turns out that people want this, you have a few modules ready to install.
Just my 2 cents
My wife's a small business owner (professional photographer) and that's often how we reconcile doing things we aren't so sure about financially. Make it a win win to try it out for yourself.
I agree that modular is the way to go. It goes with that whole interchangeable parts thing that spurred the industrial revolution. Then you can keep selling trailers and if it turns out that people want this, you have a few modules ready to install.
Just my 2 cents
ManleyORV
Rugged. Reliable. Ready.
Honestly; research, design, development and testing are very expensive as well as time consuming. If I was going to offer a kitchen module, I'd just have Drifta (the one I linked to above) make us a custom size, stock and resell his. He has been doing it over 10 years and that is all he does. It would take us quite a bit of time and money to compete with his efficiency. Or even just work out a deal where our customer's get a discount if we refer them.
This would be a good option for customers that wanted the convenience of a full kitchen while allowing us to use our standard trailer platform without any manufacturing changes. And we are not going so far outside of our segment where we are competing with the full-on, one-off expedition trailers; which I have no desire to do.
-Josh
Vantage
Adventurer
I agree with an above poster. While the Drifta kitchen is a work of art, it prices itself right out of my price range. I am caming or "roughing" it. I dont need fancy finished wood, upscale knobs and fixtures.
For me the ideal trailer would be as follows:
Military style trailer. Choice of axles (2000,3500,5000)
Something like a 70/30 split lid that can open. Leaving a RTT in place on one side but having a hard cutting board/cooking surface(could even have a small basin on the underside of lid as a sink.(similar to the Tough Terrain Trailer).
Simple holder and line for propane tank on one side of the tongue.
Small closed box for Battery (with optional battery+wiring+plugs ect. as optional) on the other side of the tongue.
Underside mounted water container with a simple hand pump.
Things like tailgate, additional mounts for jerry can, RTT+mounting, even paint could be extra's.
This would take a lot more custom work to do, but people could price out their exact trailer. People hate to pay extra for things they don't, especially when it overprices the product.
For me the ideal trailer would be as follows:
Military style trailer. Choice of axles (2000,3500,5000)
Something like a 70/30 split lid that can open. Leaving a RTT in place on one side but having a hard cutting board/cooking surface(could even have a small basin on the underside of lid as a sink.(similar to the Tough Terrain Trailer).
Simple holder and line for propane tank on one side of the tongue.
Small closed box for Battery (with optional battery+wiring+plugs ect. as optional) on the other side of the tongue.
Underside mounted water container with a simple hand pump.
Things like tailgate, additional mounts for jerry can, RTT+mounting, even paint could be extra's.
This would take a lot more custom work to do, but people could price out their exact trailer. People hate to pay extra for things they don't, especially when it overprices the product.
So I guess to focus the discussion a bit, let me pose a couple of questions:
1) Do you or would you use a trailer for dual purpose; meaning utility and camping?
2) Would you spend $1000 to have a built in kitchen?
3) Would you want the kitchen to be easily removable so you can set it up away from the trailer if needed; while also allowing the trailer to be used for utility when removed?
4) Do you think that plumbed water and propane as well as batteries on board is worth $1000, the maintenance and only being able to use the trailer for camping?
Curious to hear your answers.
I am currently in the market for a trailer and I would like the option for dual purpose....not just a dedicated camper. I would not spend $1000 on a built in kitchen as my wife hates cooking close to where we sleep (food smell getting on clothes/sleeping bags). I would like some on board water storage but would prefer a hand pump, less complicated/less maintenance. I would also like a good food prep area. So I guess my answer to question 3 would be I would consider the built in kitchen if it was easily removable but also functional when not in the trailer. It would be nice to remove it and set up a separate kitchen area.
1) Do you or would you use a trailer for dual purpose; meaning utility and camping?
2) Would you spend $1000 to have a built in kitchen?
3) Would you want the kitchen to be easily removable so you can set it up away from the trailer if needed; while also allowing the trailer to be used for utility when removed?
4) Do you think that plumbed water and propane as well as batteries on board is worth $1000, the maintenance and only being able to use the trailer for camping?
Curious to hear your answers.
I am currently in the market for a trailer and I would like the option for dual purpose....not just a dedicated camper. I would not spend $1000 on a built in kitchen as my wife hates cooking close to where we sleep (food smell getting on clothes/sleeping bags). I would like some on board water storage but would prefer a hand pump, less complicated/less maintenance. I would also like a good food prep area. So I guess my answer to question 3 would be I would consider the built in kitchen if it was easily removable but also functional when not in the trailer. It would be nice to remove it and set up a separate kitchen area.
1. Yes, 2. No, 3. No, 4. Yes, depending on batteries being included and what that includes.
I had a rather long business analysis for you as I have over 20 years of direct related experience, but the #!@^% site timed out and lost the whole thing.
You're selling the capability to do something not filling so much of a real need as this is recreational for the most part. It's the illusion of being capable of expeditionary travels, not outfitting Exon to be trekking out there for months at a time.
I would not specialize forming my products around a 50 year old military trailer but rather build accessories for any trailer that happens to be adaptable to the M Series.
Modular is the way to go, IMO. It allows customers build their ultimate rig over time as finances and the wife might allow.
I would not reinvent the wheel, I'd design space for and ARB, they make sliders so you don't need to. A cooler can always fit in the same space.
Would I want a kitchen that was portable? If I cooked outside I'd set up a coleman on a portable table, the alternative to your removable kitchen is pretty cheap, less than a hundred bucks.
Broaden your market as much as possible, brand yourself as an accessory provider for any trailer, not just one type. Homebuilders probably out number M series owners. Even more have utility trailers that could go camping if they simply had the bolt ons.
I had a rather long business analysis for you as I have over 20 years of direct related experience, but the #!@^% site timed out and lost the whole thing.
You're selling the capability to do something not filling so much of a real need as this is recreational for the most part. It's the illusion of being capable of expeditionary travels, not outfitting Exon to be trekking out there for months at a time.
I would not specialize forming my products around a 50 year old military trailer but rather build accessories for any trailer that happens to be adaptable to the M Series.
Modular is the way to go, IMO. It allows customers build their ultimate rig over time as finances and the wife might allow.
I would not reinvent the wheel, I'd design space for and ARB, they make sliders so you don't need to. A cooler can always fit in the same space.
Would I want a kitchen that was portable? If I cooked outside I'd set up a coleman on a portable table, the alternative to your removable kitchen is pretty cheap, less than a hundred bucks.
Broaden your market as much as possible, brand yourself as an accessory provider for any trailer, not just one type. Homebuilders probably out number M series owners. Even more have utility trailers that could go camping if they simply had the bolt ons.
I'm not in the market for a trailer but am working on a really slow build myself.
I think in this market you have a lot of folks that can do some of the work themselves and will do so to save some money.
They might not be able to weld but can likely drill/bolt/wire/plumb etc.
1) No, honestly if I can spend over $3k on an off-road trailer with a ~4X6 box, I'm likely to have separate trailer for hauling. I think this is different market than the guy that picks up a military trailer for <$1k and can slowly build it out.
2) No, I would more likely be interested in some reasonably priced slides that I could mount a cooler/fridge/stove to.
3) No, my reason for the trailer is to keep most of my camping supplies ready to go at all times. I want to make it fast/easy to setup/take down. We are usually camping 4+ folks so we use a ground tent anyway.
4)No, not for me. I would be more likely to source the items and add my own later.
I think in this market you have a lot of folks that can do some of the work themselves and will do so to save some money.
They might not be able to weld but can likely drill/bolt/wire/plumb etc.
1) No, honestly if I can spend over $3k on an off-road trailer with a ~4X6 box, I'm likely to have separate trailer for hauling. I think this is different market than the guy that picks up a military trailer for <$1k and can slowly build it out.
2) No, I would more likely be interested in some reasonably priced slides that I could mount a cooler/fridge/stove to.
3) No, my reason for the trailer is to keep most of my camping supplies ready to go at all times. I want to make it fast/easy to setup/take down. We are usually camping 4+ folks so we use a ground tent anyway.
4)No, not for me. I would be more likely to source the items and add my own later.
1) Do you or would you use a trailer for dual purpose; meaning utility and camping?
For me it has to be dual purpose. I sold the MJ after the kid dented it beyond my repair ability, and his mother wanted something with an airbag for him to drive. We need to make occasional dump runs, tree branch runs, haul gravel, trail and shooting site clean ups. If it's moderately useful, aside from recreation, the wife won't complain too much.
2) Would you spend $1000 to have a built in kitchen?
No. I built a box that contains the kitchen. It's a heavy POS, but it works, and functions as in number 3. Also I can carry it with a hitch hauler on the jeep. Love the Drifta stuff, but I'd rather replace my broken front locker.
3) Would you want the kitchen to be easily removable so you can set it up away from the trailer if needed; while also allowing the trailer to be used for utility when removed?
Yes.
4) Do you think that plumbed water and propane as well as batteries on board is worth $1000, the maintenance and only being able to use the trailer for camping?
I am a chemical engineer, so I had planned on adding a built in water system, tank, pump, heater, etc. to my M416. I'm an old time backpacker, from back when you could only buy hiking boots at outfitting stores like Abercrombie and Fitch. I had gotten away from camping, until my wife introduced me to the joys of car camping. Much easier than backpacking. I bought a Zodi shower system some time ago and was going to incorporate it as a water heater. I was looking forward to spending time again on McMaster-Carr's website. Then I saw the self contained units available now for less than I paid for the far cruder Zodi, and I gave up on that idea. I am also questioning the idea of a dedicated water tank. For one, while polypro tanks are cheap enough for an industrial process, the same price just to haul water seems silly. 4 5 gallon jugs from wall mart are much cheaper, and I think more practical. For the electrical, I had planned even before finding this site to use the proverbial HF trailer box. I don't see the need for plumbing propane permanently. I plan on attaching the 20 # tank outboard at the rear of the trailer.
I like the idea of a modular build. I would consider figuring out how to easily add a wiring harness to your trailers that provides a basic switching panel, battery, lighter output, an led area light or two, and the ability to be added to for cool stuff, like an isolater for charging the battery while driving, solar and /or generator input, inverter, seems like a usb outlet needs to be standard these day. Got to keep the kindle, tablet, smart phone charged.
I like your trailers. If I hadn't bought the M416 years ago, they are the road I would travel.
Fred
For me it has to be dual purpose. I sold the MJ after the kid dented it beyond my repair ability, and his mother wanted something with an airbag for him to drive. We need to make occasional dump runs, tree branch runs, haul gravel, trail and shooting site clean ups. If it's moderately useful, aside from recreation, the wife won't complain too much.
2) Would you spend $1000 to have a built in kitchen?
No. I built a box that contains the kitchen. It's a heavy POS, but it works, and functions as in number 3. Also I can carry it with a hitch hauler on the jeep. Love the Drifta stuff, but I'd rather replace my broken front locker.
3) Would you want the kitchen to be easily removable so you can set it up away from the trailer if needed; while also allowing the trailer to be used for utility when removed?
Yes.
4) Do you think that plumbed water and propane as well as batteries on board is worth $1000, the maintenance and only being able to use the trailer for camping?
I am a chemical engineer, so I had planned on adding a built in water system, tank, pump, heater, etc. to my M416. I'm an old time backpacker, from back when you could only buy hiking boots at outfitting stores like Abercrombie and Fitch. I had gotten away from camping, until my wife introduced me to the joys of car camping. Much easier than backpacking.
I bought a Zodi shower system some time ago and was going to incorporate it as a water heater. I was looking forward to spending time again on McMaster-Carr's website. Then I saw the self contained units available now for less than I paid for the far cruder Zodi, and I gave up on that idea. I am also questioning the idea of a dedicated water tank. For one, while polypro tanks are cheap enough for an industrial process, the same price just to haul water seems silly. 4 5 gallon jugs from wall mart are much cheaper, and I think more practical. For the electrical, I had planned even before finding this site to use the proverbial HF trailer box. I don't see the need for plumbing propane permanently. I plan on attaching the 20 # tank outboard at the rear of the trailer. I like the idea of a modular build. I would consider figuring out how to easily add a wiring harness to your trailers that provides a basic switching panel, battery, lighter output, an led area light or two, and the ability to be added to for cool stuff, like an isolater for charging the battery while driving, solar and /or generator input, inverter, seems like a usb outlet needs to be standard these day. Got to keep the kindle, tablet, smart phone charged.
I like your trailers. If I hadn't bought the M416 years ago, they are the road I would travel.
Fred
The money is in knowing where the market is heading and being there when the time comes. What I'm building right now stems from the fact that I can't afford a 1 ton pickup as a daily driver. If i could I would and then yeah, I'd have a 35' fifth wheel with slide outs and the whole shebang.
So this forces us into smaller trucks and now all I can tow is a tent trailer. I want something cooler and more capable. I think as you see gas prices go up more and more people are going to give up the big rig and are going to want more in a smaller package.
Right now I agree with a post above that you wont get the $$$ out of the backyard guy. We'll build it ourselves. But as more and more people give up the big rig your customer base will grow.
I can see things like the recent bankruptcy of Suzuki USA a step in the right direction. All these companies have super cool small diesel trucks that never see the light of day in north america. Maybe we'll start to see these things infiltrate the market.
So this forces us into smaller trucks and now all I can tow is a tent trailer. I want something cooler and more capable. I think as you see gas prices go up more and more people are going to give up the big rig and are going to want more in a smaller package.
Right now I agree with a post above that you wont get the $$$ out of the backyard guy. We'll build it ourselves. But as more and more people give up the big rig your customer base will grow.
I can see things like the recent bankruptcy of Suzuki USA a step in the right direction. All these companies have super cool small diesel trucks that never see the light of day in north america. Maybe we'll start to see these things infiltrate the market.
jeepfreak81
Adventurer
1) Do you or would you use a trailer for dual purpose; meaning utility and camping?
I used to, but have found it much easier just to have a second trailer for the lack of hassle. This lets me leave all my gear in my camping trailer at all times, clearing up room in my storage unit.
2) Would you spend $1000 to have a built in kitchen?
Probably not, I REALLY like the Drifta, and I am sure it is more stable than the Coleman thing + a roll up table we use now. The cost it what kills me when I look at it. A kitchen was a must for us, as that was the one thing my wife requested when we camped. I put a screened in awning off the back of the trailer and put the table and Coleman Stove Stand in it and she has been happy so far. Her only other request was a form of toilet.
3) Would you want the kitchen to be easily removable so you can set it up away from the trailer if needed; while also allowing the trailer to be used for utility when removed?
Yes
4) Do you think that plumbed water and propane as well as batteries on board is worth $1000, the maintenance and only being able to use the trailer for camping?
If it was all three for that price hell yes. Not including the battery and tongue box I have less than $100 into my battery setup. I still plan to add water, but I do not know how I feel about plumbed propane on the trailer as we use propane away from the trailer more. If I were to add a heater to the tent somehow, maybe.
This was a shake down run for my trailer, you can kind of see how we use it, only the shake down run was done in campgrounds. The 416 is a good comparison to your trailer IMO. I do wish I had a tailgate a lot though. I just do not have the heart to cut one into this trailer it was in great shape. I am friends with your page, and definitely am keeping that in mind for the future.
The 'Kitchen' I really wish it was setup like the Drifta in that all the gear stores IN the kithchen. I believe it would save a LOT of space INSIDE the trailer when packed down. I can thin a lot out, but didn't on this trip.
I used to, but have found it much easier just to have a second trailer for the lack of hassle. This lets me leave all my gear in my camping trailer at all times, clearing up room in my storage unit.
2) Would you spend $1000 to have a built in kitchen?
Probably not, I REALLY like the Drifta, and I am sure it is more stable than the Coleman thing + a roll up table we use now. The cost it what kills me when I look at it. A kitchen was a must for us, as that was the one thing my wife requested when we camped. I put a screened in awning off the back of the trailer and put the table and Coleman Stove Stand in it and she has been happy so far. Her only other request was a form of toilet.
3) Would you want the kitchen to be easily removable so you can set it up away from the trailer if needed; while also allowing the trailer to be used for utility when removed?
Yes
4) Do you think that plumbed water and propane as well as batteries on board is worth $1000, the maintenance and only being able to use the trailer for camping?
If it was all three for that price hell yes. Not including the battery and tongue box I have less than $100 into my battery setup. I still plan to add water, but I do not know how I feel about plumbed propane on the trailer as we use propane away from the trailer more. If I were to add a heater to the tent somehow, maybe.
This was a shake down run for my trailer, you can kind of see how we use it, only the shake down run was done in campgrounds. The 416 is a good comparison to your trailer IMO. I do wish I had a tailgate a lot though. I just do not have the heart to cut one into this trailer it was in great shape. I am friends with your page, and definitely am keeping that in mind for the future.
The 'Kitchen' I really wish it was setup like the Drifta in that all the gear stores IN the kithchen. I believe it would save a LOT of space INSIDE the trailer when packed down. I can thin a lot out, but didn't on this trip.
trailer
Interesting discussion. As a now 60 yr old I too wanted something a bit better for camping. When I built my trailer the T.V. was a 98 XJ on 35,s, now it,s a 2000 Dakota on 31,s. I searched all over for a small trailer capable of rough country travel, could not find anything matching my needs for less than $10,000. Specs were simple, I like cold weather camping so insulation was a must, ability to go down tight woods roads / over rocks a must. I,ve been camping all my life so have stoves, portable shower, etc already. So I built myself a trailer- 8' long, 5' 3" wide and 5' 3" high inside. It has a 12 V battery with 5 lights inside and a 110V plug if I decide to take my little generator. A seat along the back that folds down to 6' long bed for 2. It has 1/4" plywood walls insulated with 1 and 1/2" rigid foam. A "recycled" metal cabinet sits at the front and stores utensils,etc and it rides on 31"tires. The narrow width means stock mirrors on my Dodge work just fine, the low height allows it to fit down any trail I want. If I were to do it again 9' or just a bit longer and maybe about 6" wider would be great, then at 5' 10" I could sleep across the back giving a bit more space. It would be made a lot lighter and would still be insulated. Now if someone had a base trailer made for the camper who goes off the beaten track with those specs at a reasonable price I would have been all over it. I will include a picture, with the rear kick up this trailer has been towed over some very rough trails with 5 foot steep inclines with no dragging.
Here is a picture with the newer T.V and slightly different fenders
Interesting discussion. As a now 60 yr old I too wanted something a bit better for camping. When I built my trailer the T.V. was a 98 XJ on 35,s, now it,s a 2000 Dakota on 31,s. I searched all over for a small trailer capable of rough country travel, could not find anything matching my needs for less than $10,000. Specs were simple, I like cold weather camping so insulation was a must, ability to go down tight woods roads / over rocks a must. I,ve been camping all my life so have stoves, portable shower, etc already. So I built myself a trailer- 8' long, 5' 3" wide and 5' 3" high inside. It has a 12 V battery with 5 lights inside and a 110V plug if I decide to take my little generator. A seat along the back that folds down to 6' long bed for 2. It has 1/4" plywood walls insulated with 1 and 1/2" rigid foam. A "recycled" metal cabinet sits at the front and stores utensils,etc and it rides on 31"tires. The narrow width means stock mirrors on my Dodge work just fine, the low height allows it to fit down any trail I want. If I were to do it again 9' or just a bit longer and maybe about 6" wider would be great, then at 5' 10" I could sleep across the back giving a bit more space. It would be made a lot lighter and would still be insulated. Now if someone had a base trailer made for the camper who goes off the beaten track with those specs at a reasonable price I would have been all over it. I will include a picture, with the rear kick up this trailer has been towed over some very rough trails with 5 foot steep inclines with no dragging.
Here is a picture with the newer T.V and slightly different fenders
ManleyORV
Rugged. Reliable. Ready.
Awesome looking setup jeepfreak81! As an interim solution for the kitchen you might want to check out something like the Grub Hub USA (www.grubhubusa.com). It'd help get all the cooking gear in one place.
Killer fab skills hugh. I think the rear "kickup" really makes the look.
-Josh
Killer fab skills hugh. I think the rear "kickup" really makes the look.
-Josh
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jeepfreak81
Adventurer
Thank you for the compliments. I only hope I get to use it as much as I plan to.
I really like the Grub Hub, but with the small size of the screen room and the table coming off the back it would not work. I am curious about the fully set up dimensions, they did not have those listed.
ManleyORV
Rugged. Reliable. Ready.
I hear ya! I own an offroad trailer company I barely get out unless it's for a show, etc. I'm hoping to change that in 2013. It's on the list of 143 New Year's Resolutions haha.
I posted on their Facebook inquiring about the setup dimensions if you want to keep an eye on it.
-Josh