gregmchugh
Observer
Isn’t the Cummins for the larger trucks not the ones used by EC?
Discussion on the 2021 Isuzu/Chevy 6.6L Gas Cabover Platform
- Thread starter carterd
- Start date
Isn’t the Cummins for the larger trucks not the ones used by EC?
tkj23qe1387
Member
Apparently the Cummins is going to the Class 6 variants (Isuzu FTR/Chevy 6500XD) only. The shortest wheelbase is 150 Inch, which is 18 Inch longer than the NPR-HD/4500 series used by EC (class 3 and 4 only). If the Class 6 variants offered a shorter WB with the Cummins, that would arguably be the best US-legal candidate for a 4x4 medium duty conversion.
Edit - yes it should be in inches rather than ft. Got my education using the metrics system..
Edit - yes it should be in inches rather than ft. Got my education using the metrics system..
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SkiFreak
Crazy Person
That'd be a little challenging going around a hairpin turn!
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Epps
New member
Yes, we are talking the larger Class 6 or 7 trucks, but there are larger overland trucks out there than an Isuzu F series. I don't see an 18" longer wheel base as a major issue for most folks. Due to the cab height, I think the FX cabin would be the best fit for the pass through. It appears to me that Isuzu wants out of diesel development and may look to Cummins for a diesel replacement in the class 3 & 4 trucks in the future. Hey, CORE is replacing the axles on their trucks for 4X4, so the wheel base could be changed in the process.
Can't hurt to dream a little!.... Now what would this beast look like?
As to the turning radius:
"Isuzu F-Series truck Drivers will appreciate the 50-degree inner wheel cut that gives the Isuzu F-Series class-leading turning diameters between 43.7-ft (152” WB) and 65-ft. (248” WB)."
2021 Ford F-350 Super Duty · Turning radius 47.6 - 59.6 feet
gregmchugh
Observer
Can you keep that wheel cut with a new front drive axle?
tkj23qe1387
Member
I tried searching the web for f-series 4x4 conversions and haven't found anything meaningful. Isuzu sells factory 4x4 FTS in Oz/NZ, but those are right-hand drive only so no reason in trying to import them state-side. If the lighter trucks also convert to Cummins that would be a god-send. Isuzu's platform is certainly well-adjusted to all these use cases.
Anyone from EC or CORE would care to comment on whether you might consider doing 4x4 conversions for the F-series? I think they could be fantastic for larger rigs and the global support is great as well.
Anyone from EC or CORE would care to comment on whether you might consider doing 4x4 conversions for the F-series? I think they could be fantastic for larger rigs and the global support is great as well.
lanceatm
Founder and CEO of EarthCruiser
G`day All
There is couple of things to keep in mind with the larger trucks , generally above the 6.5 ton or 14500 lbs. It to do with how they stop. The braking systems are more complex, they are designed to control big weights. It would very expensive as mentioned they are very different to the lighter trucks. The trucks would clearly need on going parts and service support for their life cycle , this would be a significant factor to pencil in.
Changing the system to comply with federal road requirements is no small thing. The testing processes is designed to be difficult to pass ( as one would hope) and runs through various failures , meaning they intentionally make components inoperable and the vehicle still must stop under a given parameter.
What we do with FUSO and Isuzu to complete them as 4x4 vehicles goes through the same test at a Federal sanctioned third part facility as any vehicle manufacturer , be it Chev, Mercedes or EarthCruiser.
It is about testing the braking "system" , so If any component has been altered after it was testing by the vehicle manufacturer ( EarthCruiser is a vehicle manufacturer in the eyes of Government ) it is no longer in compliance and the individual or company that made that change ( say did a 4x4 convert ) they are now responsible for what ever happens as long as that vehicle drives on a public road.
Buying bits from the manufacturer and bolting them on is a great big grey area , if the vehicle manufacturers did not have 4x4 truck / car tested as a 4x4 in the USA ( sure , might have one in Aus or Europe) But IF the braking system has not been tested to the US standard and carry the certification numbers with the Federal government it MIGHT get very ugly. Only a matter of time before that one gets tested in court if it has not already, cant see why a vehicle manufacturer would agree to unauthorized modifications to their vehicles and be of support before a judge.
Steering geometry, suspension and ride quality are different subjects for another day.
Best
Lance
PS- The braking systems we use is proprietary to EarthCruiser, yes we do have well known vendors we get axles from , braking systems and certification is very different conversation .
There is couple of things to keep in mind with the larger trucks , generally above the 6.5 ton or 14500 lbs. It to do with how they stop. The braking systems are more complex, they are designed to control big weights. It would very expensive as mentioned they are very different to the lighter trucks. The trucks would clearly need on going parts and service support for their life cycle , this would be a significant factor to pencil in.
Changing the system to comply with federal road requirements is no small thing. The testing processes is designed to be difficult to pass ( as one would hope) and runs through various failures , meaning they intentionally make components inoperable and the vehicle still must stop under a given parameter.
What we do with FUSO and Isuzu to complete them as 4x4 vehicles goes through the same test at a Federal sanctioned third part facility as any vehicle manufacturer , be it Chev, Mercedes or EarthCruiser.
It is about testing the braking "system" , so If any component has been altered after it was testing by the vehicle manufacturer ( EarthCruiser is a vehicle manufacturer in the eyes of Government ) it is no longer in compliance and the individual or company that made that change ( say did a 4x4 convert ) they are now responsible for what ever happens as long as that vehicle drives on a public road.
Buying bits from the manufacturer and bolting them on is a great big grey area , if the vehicle manufacturers did not have 4x4 truck / car tested as a 4x4 in the USA ( sure , might have one in Aus or Europe) But IF the braking system has not been tested to the US standard and carry the certification numbers with the Federal government it MIGHT get very ugly. Only a matter of time before that one gets tested in court if it has not already, cant see why a vehicle manufacturer would agree to unauthorized modifications to their vehicles and be of support before a judge.
Steering geometry, suspension and ride quality are different subjects for another day.
Best
Lance
PS- The braking systems we use is proprietary to EarthCruiser, yes we do have well known vendors we get axles from , braking systems and certification is very different conversation .
Epps
New member
Lance: Your point is very well taken, those of us in our 50's or more tend to think about this subject as we did when we wer in our 20's. Times have changed....
I've given the thought of using a NPR box truck and building out my own interior, but what EarthCruiser offers is a time proven, repeat design that is well thought out.
Great work from you and your team. Wish my wife would see the value in an EXP, but the cost is about the price of our home. So let me go do an other entry to the Terranova contest. Maybe if I win, she'll agree to upgrade to an EXP?
John
I've given the thought of using a NPR box truck and building out my own interior, but what EarthCruiser offers is a time proven, repeat design that is well thought out.
Great work from you and your team. Wish my wife would see the value in an EXP, but the cost is about the price of our home. So let me go do an other entry to the Terranova contest. Maybe if I win, she'll agree to upgrade to an EXP?
John
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Epps
New member
Is the current bomber truck a 6.0L or 6.6L engine?
tkj23qe1387
Member
Thanks Lance. One question about the "kinetic subframe" that comes with the CORE - is it a spring-mount subframe or a 3-4 point torsion-free subframe?
Any plans to publish the updated CORE specs based on Isuzu on your site yet?
Epps
New member
Lance: Is there any chance that the EXD (You still offer that I hope, I don't see it on your site now.) could be fitted to a 109" Isuzu NPR 4X4? At less than 17' long it would be a mini EXP. Yes, there would be some overhang on the rear, but the storage box and spare wheel would fit fine.
Far better platform than a Transit, shorter wheel base than a pick up, and It could that be a lower cost option to a full size EXP.
Much more "Van life".
Epps
Far better platform than a Transit, shorter wheel base than a pick up, and It could that be a lower cost option to a full size EXP.
Much more "Van life".
Epps
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Epps, as much as I like your idea of minimalist, compact truck, I believe that a 109" wheelbase truck may be a bit sketchy with a camper on its back. For reference, that is the same wheelbase as a 5th gen 4Runner and a Mercedes GLK250 and only 6" longer than a regular cab, short box 80s HiLux. I have driven a 112" wheelbase Fuso with about 1500 - 2000 pounds on the bed, but the weight was down low. (flat bed, no box) Turning circle and breakover are quite good compared to the longer wheelbase trucks I have driven. (132"; 150" and 176") Everything is a compromise.
