DIY Insulation - What's the standard these days?

[toymaster]

I recently pulled the trigger on this:

http://www.armacell.us/products/aparmaflexsaaparmaflexfssa/

Its a 3x4 sheet of closed cell neoprene foam, self adhesive backed. Has an R value of 3. Designed to be applied directly to sheetmetal ductwork to prevent condensation and heat transfer.

Its spendy. $25 for the non self stickum, and $45 for the self stickum.

I plan to use this directly on the inside panels of the van, gluing seams. I dont plan to use any other insulation or vapor barrier, just my wall panel.

Im committed at this point, but would love to hear the collectives thoughts on this.

Where did you source this? Can't find it that cheap....

 

[boardrider247]

Answers to your questions will be found over on the Sprinter Forum.

sprinter forum is the best for you.

These posts would be far more valuable with some specific thread links rather then just a blanket statement of "go to a different forum"
That is about as useful as saying "the internet has your answers"
:elkgrin:

 

[dlh62c]

These posts would be far more valuable with some specific thread links rather then just a blanket statement of "go to a different forum"
That is about as useful as saying "the internet has your answers"
:elkgrin:

There's plenty of DIY van conversions on YouTube as well.

 

[luthj]

If you are going for maximum sound reduction AND insulation you will need to take a multilayered approach. This can get labor intensive and expensive depending on material choices.

The major advantage of thinsulate is that is both an reasonable sound absorber and insulation (engineered to be a blend of both). When bonded to body sheet metal with adhesive it also damps the panels natural vibrations similar to dynamat. As far as installation labor goes, its really hard to beat the thinsulate. Really nice stuff to work with. Thinsulate can also be stuffed behind the dash, under factory pillar covers etc. That is not an option with fiberglass/rock wool.

For most rigs going more than R4-R5 in the wall cavities is a diminishing returns situation. Unless you have no windows and disassemble the front cab to upgrade the factory insulation that is. With R4 on the walls the windows will likely be making up over 75% of your heat transfer. Going to R5+ will only reduce your thermal loading by 10% or so.

For the areas under the floor a 0.5"-1" neoprene mat works well, and also absorbs sound. If you are putting in a rigid floor (plywood etc) you can use polyiso foam sheets from your local home store underneath and save $$$.

Filling any body cavities will also reduce heat transfer. Great stuff foam can work, but needs to be done slowly, and can be messy. I have seen some folks pull strips of thinsulate into the ribs/cavities using string and a vacuum.

Another option is spray foam. I used a tigerfoam DIY kit to do all the exposed wall areas in my van. Was surprisingly easy. The key is to not overfill the wall spaces. I used PE/Neoprene foam and thinsulate to finish up the insulation install.

 

[_hein_]

Could you post specs on the 400l? I couldnt find them. If I could have both the 3m and the armaflex in the wall, seems to me that would be an ideal combination.

Another option is spray foam. I used a tigerfoam DIY kit to do all the exposed wall areas in my van. Was surprisingly easy. The key is to not overfill the wall spaces. I used PE/Neoprene foam and thinsulate to finish up the insulation install.

Beware of panel warping due to a difference in thermal expansion between the metal and adhered foam. It doesn't appear right away and can ruin the vehicle. Photos here: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48083

 

[luthj]

Beware of panel warping due to a difference in thermal expansion between the metal and adhered foam. It doesn't appear right away and can ruin the vehicle. Photos here: http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48083

Every example of this I have seen or heard of involved a professional spray company which did full coverage and filled the ribs. So it is a real risk with these application systems. Though given the number of applications, it may not be that common? Not enough data points I guess. Caveat Empor.

There is no warping on my van, but I used a DIY kit and did not fill the ribs with the 2 part foam. I wonder if the professional systems use a foam with a higher tensile strength? The tigerfoam is fairly soft?

 

[goneagain]

^^^^To add to that, ive not seen any examples of regular vans, just sprinters. More sheetmetal surface area?

 

[goneagain]

Your vapor barrier should be on the "wet" side of your insulation
From my perspective your order should go like this from van to interior
Sound deadener-insulation-vapor barrier-finish
This keeps your insulation dry rather then allowing it to absorb moisture before the moisture gets to your barrier

And Tom is correct you need a way to exhaust moisture
We run our fantastic fan while sleeping all winter. Crack the front windows and pull air to the back of the van and out.
Good sleeping bags are key:elkgrin:

I take it you dont have an air heater installed?

Seems to me having an air heater to keep the interior a stable temp will do a lot for keeping condensation away. thoughts?

 

[luthj]

I take it you dont have an air heater installed?

Seems to me having an air heater to keep the interior a stable temp will do a lot for keeping condensation away. thoughts?

The key to dry camping in cold weather is to run the heater and have a window or vent cracked all the time. The exterior air is cold and dry and will help prevent moisture build up. The condensation comes from excess moisture. This moisture only comes from cooking, evaporation (wet clothing etc) and breathing.

The exception to this is camping in near freezing weather with very high humidity. Not much to be done in this situation.

Edit: In my experience changing the air out once every 2 hours is more than enough to keep the moisture at bay. So in most vans a few cubic feet per minute should be fine.

 

[boardrider247]

I take it you dont have an air heater installed?

Seems to me having an air heater to keep the interior a stable temp will do a lot for keeping condensation away. thoughts?

The key to dry camping in cold weather is to run the heater and have a window or vent cracked all the time. The exterior air is cold and dry and will help prevent moisture build up. The condensation comes from excess moisture. This moisture only comes from cooking and breathing.

The exception to this is camping in near freezing weather with very high humidity. Not much to be done in this situation.

Correct, I do not have a heater installed.
Luth is also correct that moisture inside of the vehicle comes from breathing, cooking and wet gear stored inside.
You can heat the air inside the van as much as you want but that will not remove the water vapor contained in the air, that vapor must be exhausted somehow.
Air out needs to equal air in with enough air changes per hour to move the water vapor out of the van.
From there your heater needs to be sized large enough to compensate for those air changes to keep the space warm.

 

[gh0ztkid21]

I am in the process of doing my van, I fat matted the whole interior first, then put a tight layer of reflectix on that. On top of that layer of reflectix I glued anothe roster of reflectix to the top of my van and let it hang loose along the van wall to the bottom to leave a air space between the 2 layers of reflectix. I am either going to plywood and cover with vinyl for my finish or use that pro van liner kit to finish off the walls.