I already advised HOW (via facts/sources) race is relevant. If you cannot understand the facts or inference---I am sorry for your lack of intellect. If you felt condescension in my posts then maybe you feel inferior due to the lack of your comprehension. Big issues require serious thought, research, discussion, debate, and intelligence.
Do you feel the need to be upset when you encounter an armed camper in the woods?
- Thread starter plainjaneFJC
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I already advised HOW (via facts/sources) race is relevant. If you cannot understand the facts or inference---I am sorry for your lack of intellect. If you felt condescension in my posts then maybe you feel inferior due to the lack of your comprehension. Big issues require serious thought, research, discussion, debate, and intelligence.
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Really? Where? You must have used big words so I couldn't see it.
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Your only salient points have been that blacks commit gun crimes at a statistically disproportionate rate and that gun crime is actually on the decline. Both points are accepted. What you have NOT stated, is how that information applies to a discussion about constitutional rights. It only works two ways:
If race IS relevant to constitutional rights, you ARE advocating restrictions on constitutional rights based on race.
or
If race is NOT relevant to constitutional rights, you ARE guilty of using a red herring fallacy in a discussion. (logic 101)
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The answer seems pretty obvious to me.
jeep-N-montero
Expedition Leader
The interesting thing about internet discussions versus in-person conversations is that folks can sit down to Google statistics and big words they can post online in an effort to make others feel inferior. And of course you still have those who fail to give any credibility to anyone's thoughts but their own and try to bash any ideas for no reason other than the thoughts/ideas not being their own, yet they offer no viable plan or resource to support their own ideas.
I Leak Oil
Expedition Leader
You guys should take your personal arguments off line and let us discuss our inner feelings about armed campers.
Awesome, you have finally understood the analysis! If ONE group in a society has a problem with exercising a right in a criminal manner that the rest exercise peacefully/rightfully----then WHY should the rights of the majority be lessened because of the FEW that abuse that right? There's NO racism in that observation. None. Period. Example: If a certain subsection of a religion were using their religion as a crux to fly planes into buildings, blow up marathon races, cut off peoples heads, and shoot up schools----do we then make new laws RESTRICTING that religion? Religious freedom is a hallmark of our nation and a Constitutional Right. See the analogy?
Isn't the internet great? People get credibility when it's earned. Stupid ideas are always going to be stupid ideas---so WHY should anyone listen to them?
These are NOT personal arguments. If you cannot make the connection between guns, camping, and the 2nd Amendment----nobody can help you.
I Leak Oil
Expedition Leader
Well I guess you told me....
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
You'd being rotting away in prison by now.
jeep-N-montero
Expedition Leader
Looking up a few statistics is hardly earning any credibility, but good luck with whatever it is you are attempting to accomplish.
At least I am well-versed on the issue, via providing necessary background and facts. You merely opine from your posterior----which is evidenced in you possessing no prior knowledge of the topic.
Three things:
1. I understood this from the start--your explanations were not needed
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2. I have never advocated restricting gun rights--just discussion about how we can help partially solve a problem. (anything that reduces gun deaths also reduces ammo for those wanting to restrict 2A)
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3. Your information is still irrelevant to the discussion--Your position: "Blacks are committing most of the gun violence, therefore, do not restrict gun rights for everybody else." Does that even sound logical to you? How is that position pertinent to a discussion about either a) Encountering an armed camper in the woods; or b) the interaction between constitutional rights and inalienable rights (i.e. is the right to life and liberty greater than/less than/equal too the right to keep and bear arms?) If you had paid attention to THAT discussion, you would have seen that the general consensus was that the rights are roughly equal, but due to the direct and immediate effects of irresponsibly exercising 2A, children should be educated about gun safety.
Excellent, but you continue to write that we NEED to have a "discussion" about the gun problem in America. There is no gun problem, so your talking point is a non sequitur. Now if you believe mass media propagandists, then there's a gun murder in every home and school by-the-minute. The more you say that the public needs to "discuss" the problem---you give legitimacy to their lies. The opposite is true, in that the MORE guns that are sold/owned in America, the LESS crime there is. Please take a few minutes to read this:
1993 to 2013: More Guns, Less Gun Crime
http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-violence-between-1993-and-2013/
Personally I am done arguing with those that seek to restrict/ban my Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms. There comes a time when you just have to tell them to ********. There are already ways to lessen the issues we are discussing, but politicians/law enforcement/judicial system REFUSE to:
1. Follow the Constitution
2. Stop Political Correctness from affecting their ability to enforce the laws in-place
3. Confront the REAL people responsible for most of the problems, instead of attempting to make MORE useless laws/regulations that ultimately restrict MY rights
Good Lord, you told me that you understood the connections---and now you write that you don't "see" the connections? Yes my point is very logical, and backed by hard data. Just because you think the the 2nd Amendment has immediate effects when used wrongfully doesn't mean that the rest of America needs to "discuss" ways to curb their problems. Let me explain in a way that all military folks understand.... There used to be a saying whenever someone would screw up in the barracks, on post, or in town. That saying was "One dude sheites his pants---everyone has to wear a diaper". Meaning that when some Private or Corporal did something stupid, the Battalion Commander would advise the Command Sergeant Major to cancel everyone's weekend pass, instead of punishing that particular offender. You see that now in combat zones, where troops are wearing reflective belts. Reflective safety belts in a damn combat zone? Why? Because some E-1, E-2, or E-3 walked in front of a MRAP at Camp Bastion or Bagram. The analogy? A subsection of American society cannot control themselves and commit a MUCH larger percentage of gun crimes. So instead of punishing THAT particular subsection (like those pesky Privates/Corporals), the government (like that Battalion Commander and CSM) must punish everyone (the everyone is the rest of society).
Hope this assists.
Very nice post, especially with the Military analogy!
jeep-N-montero
Expedition Leader
Apparently you lack any real comprehension of what I posted, if you actually read it you would notice I offered no definitive opinion on the topic, I simply stated an observation of behavior presented by certain posters who act like a bunch of middle school boys trying to kick the ball the furthest until the other simply gives up until the next day. But please keep up your argument, the entertainment presented within this thread is priceless, even though the end result will still be worthless and you will have wasted hours trying to prove/disprove the ideas of yourself and others with no declared winner. And feel free to meet me at the range anytime, I assure you my knowledge of the topic is not an issue, I simply choose to not argue with idiots because it goes nowhere.
Then WHY even post in the first place? Because you just had to say "something" to make yourself feel better? Who is an idiot, everyone but yourself? I would not call this thread entertainment as some serious discussion has occurred. Unless you have some new information or a unique insight regarding the thread, why participate? Oh, maybe you're from the "everyone's a winner generation" and we all must respect the most inane and meaningless thoughts....... sorry..... I mean your post was the most awesome thing I ever read in my life!
I Leak Oil
Expedition Leader
Not personal eh?