Dodge Pathfinder Clone Discussion

[stomperxj]

Hi Guys-

I have always been a fan of 4x4 vans and have started thinking about them a lot lately. I really like the Dodge B-Series and don't see very many of the original Pathfinder versions or home brew 4x4 swaps on here. I'd like to post up some ideas for a build and would like some feedback on it...

Here are some examples:

Ice Box's B van:

A stock SWB window van:

Another yellow SWB:

Here are the specs I've come up with after some internet and junkyard research:

1975ish SWB Dodge B series van. 109.6" wheel base, approx 3300lbs curb weight stock
Find a mid-late 90's donor van w/ a fuel Injected 5.9 Magnum, 230hp and 330lbs of torque. swap all electrics, dash... etc for updated interior/electronics
Dana 44 & 9" ford from a 76-77 F150. Width seems to be close to stock width on a B Van at around 66-67" WMS. Geared accordingly
Dodge 46RE 4 speed auto tranny
Dodge NP231HD xfer case
32x11.50 or 33x10.50 tires

Fabrication would include all the front suspension radius arm mounts/shock mounts, xfer case cross member and bumpers/racks etc...

What kind of mileage could you expect from this setup? Somewhere in the 15-20mpg range? With gear the van would probably weigh around 4200lbs which is not a huge amount more than my XJ loaded with its 4.0L with way less power and torque at 190/220 stock. I would think high teens for mpg would be easily attainable while having a bunch more power for hills and towing capacity.

Looking at the project as a whole doesn't look that bad to me as far as time and fabrication. The front Radius arm setup doesn't have a ton of geometry to figure out. The main time consumer would be swapping all the wiring and dashboard over to the early van...

Any suggestions? Feedback? Am I nuts?

Jess

 

[ujoint]

Aren't we all nuts???

Do these vans have frames under them?

 

[stomperxj]

Aren't we all nuts???

Do these vans have frames under them?

I think we all are a little Chris

They are a unibody van up to the firewall. The front has actual boxed frame horns. The frame "rails" are boxed to the bottom of the body all the way to the back. Some reinforcing in critical areas should make everything structurally sound I think. These vans came in 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions throughout the years so i think it should be up to the task...

 

[tommudd]

back in 78-79 we were building them using 60s front and rear with coils first in the front and finally going to leaf springs in front , ran 38s and later 40s on them back then as well
lost most all of my pics a few years back but here are a couple from a trip to Florida

 

[dsw4x4]

I think it would be a cool set up. I like the old vans. I am in the parts gathering stage for my 73 econoline. Its getting 44 in the front, 60 in the rear and a nv4500 with a cummins 4bt. I say start a thread and go for it! I would think 20 would be dreaming 15 would be more realistic.
Here is a perfect platform to start with
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/2461841798.html
Derek

 

[dinobody]

There is a 4x4 3/4 or 1 ton window van around where I live that is for sale. If you want I will keep my eyes open if you want the p.h. #
Doug

 

[paragus]

off topic.. but i wish it was still $1.12 for a gallon for gas!!!

 

[Railvan]

Have you considered starting with a late model Dodge van like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dodge_Ram_Van.JPG

and swapping out the front end sheet metal for the 1970's look? *Might* be easier than moving all the power train, dashboard, and electrical from a newer van to the older body. Everything on the van, body and frame included, would be newer if you could just swap the nose over to the old body style. I think the older nose looks much nicer but it appears shorter so I don't know if it would fit easily.

 

[Gvan]

As far as I know like pre 1995 GM vans, Dodges never had real frames they were uni-body. Since I have owned 3 Pathfinder GM vans in the past I can tell you what they had.

These pictures are of a wrecked one I parted out to build a different one. Some of the holes are from the 12 plug welds on each side (6 top 6 bottom) and the others are where the cross member bolts in. If you click on the pictures you can make them bigger.

What Pathfinder did for the GM vans was make a sub-frame that was welded inside the original frame to mount the spring hangers and such. They were an L shaped nisert that was made by welding flat steel together after it was cut to match the shape of the frame. This added strength to the frame when they removed the stock front cross- members. They also fabbed up a new cross member to clear the diff and hold the motor up (something you might have to do with a Dodge as well). On the GM vans they used a few different methods of holding the T-Case /Transmission through the years.Early vans 1975-1982 or 83 were held from the top with an angle iron frame that bolted into two of the factory cross-members. From 1983 until 1992 when Pathfinder Closed its doors, they modified the stock cross-member and its mounting points and they were held from underneath. All of the GM vans used Drivers dump Dana 44's and
Ford Style NP 205 T Cases (Round pattern not GM Racetrack). All Pathfinder vans were One Ton vans only. Be Careful when searching out front axles as vans are wide.

If you don't alread have a van I think I might start with a newer one and swap the front sheet metal as someone suggested. The Rear of the body never changed much other than the door handle area. Just make sure what ever you start with is rust free it just makes it so much nicer. Good Luck

 

[stomperxj]

back in 78-79 we were building them using 60s front and rear with coils first in the front and finally going to leaf springs in front , ran 38s and later 40s on them back then as well
lost most all of my pics a few years back but here are a couple from a trip to Florida

Tom- Cool pics... those vans are huge

I think it would be a cool set up. I like the old vans. I am in the parts gathering stage for my 73 econoline. Its getting 44 in the front, 60 in the rear and a nv4500 with a cummins 4bt. I say start a thread and go for it! I would think 20 would be dreaming 15 would be more realistic.
Here is a perfect platform to start with
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/2461841798.html
Derek

I have done some research on the Isuzu 4bd1T/4bd2T 4 cyl diesels and they would be a great candidate for this but the problem is you can only get an adapter to mate up a GM transmission. I'd rather try and keep it as much Mopar as possible. Still thinking about the diesel version though. I'd just make my own adapter. Thats a good looking van for sure but its a long wheel base. I'd be looking for a shorty...

There is a 4x4 3/4 or 1 ton window van around where I live that is for sale. If you want I will keep my eyes open if you want the p.h. #
Doug

Thanks anyway Dino. Colorado is a little too far away...

Have you considered starting with a late model Dodge van like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dodge_Ram_Van.JPG

and swapping out the front end sheet metal for the 1970's look? *Might* be easier than moving all the power train, dashboard, and electrical from a newer van to the older body. Everything on the van, body and frame included, would be newer if you could just swap the nose over to the old body style. I think the older nose looks much nicer but it appears shorter so I don't know if it would fit easily.

I have looked at the newer ones. My only concern is that they weigh more than the early ones. Its still a very viable option though. The newer shorty conversion vans come up all the time on craigslist around here. The front fenders are spot welded on and I think i'd have to remove the windshield to get at some of the spots. A late model with an early front clip would be cool as hell though

As far as I know like pre 1995 GM vans, Dodges never had real frames they were uni-body. Since I have owned 3 Pathfinder GM vans in the past I can tell you what they had.

These pictures are of a wrecked one I parted out to build a different one. Some of the holes are from the 12 plug welds on each side (6 top 6 bottom) and the others are where the cross member bolts in. If you click on the pictures you can make them bigger.

What Pathfinder did for the GM vans was make a sub-frame that was welded inside the original frame to mount the spring hangers and such. They were an L shaped nisert that was made by welding flat steel together after it was cut to match the shape of the frame. This added strength to the frame when they removed the stock front cross- members. They also fabbed up a new cross member to clear the diff and hold the motor up (something you might have to do with a Dodge as well). On the GM vans they used a few different methods of holding the T-Case /Transmission through the years.Early vans 1975-1982 or 83 were held from the top with an angle iron frame that bolted into two of the factory cross-members. From 1983 until 1992 when Pathfinder Closed its doors, they modified the stock cross-member and its mounting points and they were held from underneath. All of the GM vans used Drivers dump Dana 44's and
Ford Style NP 205 T Cases (Round pattern not GM Racetrack). All Pathfinder vans were One Ton vans only. Be Careful when searching out front axles as vans are wide.

If you don't alread have a van I think I might start with a newer one and swap the front sheet metal as someone suggested. The Rear of the body never changed much other than the door handle area. Just make sure what ever you start with is rust free it just makes it so much nicer. Good Luck

Gvan - thanks for the info. Much appreciated. I'm saving your pictures for future reference. Thanks for posting those up.

All-
My main concern after more research is that the Magnum 5.9 is not known for gas mileage. Most of the numbers i found were guys with ram pickups in the 5000lb range and they all are getting an average of about 12mpg..... which sucks. A stock 2wd shorty van is 3300lbs ish... add in another 250lbs for suspension/axle mods, 100lbs for a tcase, another 100lbs for tires/wheels, outfitting the interior with a bed, shelving/cubbyholes at 250lbs, and other misc stuff i am forgetting... I am guessing that a shorty 4x4 van would weigh in around 4200lbs. Add in the fact that I'd be effectively raising up a big brick with a lot of frontal area... I'm just not sure that it would get much more than around 12 mpg.... which sucks. even the 2wd Dodge shorty conversion vans with the 5.2 are only getting 11-12 mpg from what ive read.

Here's the next question: Is it feasible or possible to expect any mid size 4000lb vehicle to get more than 14-15mpg? I know my XJ only gets about 13 towing the teardrop full of gear on trips. Do i need to just accept the fact that if I want to build something like this I'm only going to get around 12mpg? (excluding a turbo diesel of course)

Thanks for all the replies everyone. any other suggestions or feedback is appreciated

Jess

 

[rvanderende]

back in 78-79 we were building them using 60s front and rear with coils first in the front and finally going to leaf springs in front , ran 38s and later 40s on them back then as well
lost most all of my pics a few years back but here are a couple from a trip to Florida

my dodge looks verry small when i look at your rides

greetings from the netherlands

 

[r_w]

Here's the next question: Is it feasible or possible to expect any mid size 4000lb vehicle to get more than 14-15mpg? I know my XJ only gets about 13 towing the teardrop full of gear on trips. Do i need to just accept the fact that if I want to build something like this I'm only going to get around 12mpg? (excluding a turbo diesel of course)

Thanks for all the replies everyone. any other suggestions or feedback is appreciated

Jess

A 4000 lb vehicle can EASILY get 20's if it is a CAR. A truck or van needs to work at it (aerodynamics are a drag). My uncle used to get 20 with his old chevy van, but it was the V-6 and he babied it.

I can tell you I am not going to the work of a 4wd van unless it is a diesel... or gas comes back down to 1.12.

 

[nely]

What about a cummins 4bt? Also i saw a landcruiser that had a b3.3 cummins. I think you could easily adapt it to a dodge trans. I think the tf727. Especially since the 4bt is basically the cummins 5.9 with 2 missing cylinders.

 

[stomperxj]

What about a cummins 4bt? Also i saw a landcruiser that had a b3.3 cummins. I think you could easily adapt it to a dodge trans. I think the tf727. Especially since the 4bt is basically the cummins 5.9 with 2 missing cylinders.

I have thought about a Turbo diesel with a rig like this. either a 4BT or an Isuzu 4BD1T or 4BD2T. Some problems I see though are noise through the doghouse, weight... and the biggest problem in this area.... finding a donor. There is basically no supply of used TD's in the valley I'm in. The last one i saw for sale was an NPR truck, running for around $5k. That kills the budget right there. 4BTs are a needle in a haystack around here. I have done some more talking with some Mopar guys i know and this van would get maybe 14mpg loaded with a tail wind. The 5.7 is not known for mpgs at all. All the research I did online says the newer Dodge pickups with the 5.7EFI magnum are getting 10-14 average.... which sucks. Still toying with the idea if i can source stuff cheap enough... Just because a TD 4x4 van would be cool as hell...

Jess

 

[rvanderende]

is a bodylift possible

my dodge looks verry small when i look at your rides

greetings from the netherlands

i have a question about my b300 4x4

i like to have a bodylift but is this possible is the questing

and i hope to get some tips

greetings and thanks for reading


rob and sa from sunny netherlands