Just curious if anyone has done any wheeling with the Ram with the 8speed. I currently have a 2wd pentastar v6 with the 8 speed and with the power distribution I would think that the same truck in 4x4 would be excellent off road. I am thinking about trading the 2wd for a 4x4 version of the same truck for a expo/camping vehicle. Anyone done any offroading in the 8 speed or opinions on this combo?
Dodge Ram with 8 speed
- Thread starter jaxyaks
- Start date
Mundo4x4Casa
West slope, N. Ser. Nev.
jax,
Is it the Aisin 8 speed? There is an 8 speed in the newest jeep grand cherokee and they were having a problem on the roll-out with the electronics connecting and talking to the new common rail diesel. I think the roll-out was delayed and still may be delayed until they solve the problem. Jeanie has a 2011 Jeep G.C. with the electronic 5 speed, fly-by-wire trannie, and it has upshifting woes. The Service mgr. said to just manually upshift if it gives us any trouble.
jefe
Is it the Aisin 8 speed? There is an 8 speed in the newest jeep grand cherokee and they were having a problem on the roll-out with the electronics connecting and talking to the new common rail diesel. I think the roll-out was delayed and still may be delayed until they solve the problem. Jeanie has a 2011 Jeep G.C. with the electronic 5 speed, fly-by-wire trannie, and it has upshifting woes. The Service mgr. said to just manually upshift if it gives us any trouble.
jefe
Larry
Bigassgas Explorer
I have a few college alumni friends that work for Chrysler Group LLC and one who is a service rep mentioned a few reports of roll-aways with the 8 speed that are being investigated. Sounds like the either people are forgetting to turn the stupid knob to the Park position after turning off and exiting the vehicle or the park pawl isn’t being engaged by the shift encoder motor. I have a suspicion we’ll be reading more about that in the automotive news in the coming months.
ZF is a great powertrain supplier that typically builds top shelf components. I personally love the way the ZF 8 speed shifts (only driven them in Chargers and Chrysler 300’s) but I have reservations with the electric shift. I have not seen the electric shift prove durable in any commercial application in the medium and heavy duty truck world so hearing about roll-aways was not a surprise to me. Pickup truck manufacturers can’t even get the electric shift transfercases to work reliably and now we are supposed to trust an electric shift transmission? Hmmm, not me! That would be a deal breaker for me with ever buying a RAM with an 8 speed.
ZF is a great powertrain supplier that typically builds top shelf components. I personally love the way the ZF 8 speed shifts (only driven them in Chargers and Chrysler 300’s) but I have reservations with the electric shift. I have not seen the electric shift prove durable in any commercial application in the medium and heavy duty truck world so hearing about roll-aways was not a surprise to me. Pickup truck manufacturers can’t even get the electric shift transfercases to work reliably and now we are supposed to trust an electric shift transmission? Hmmm, not me! That would be a deal breaker for me with ever buying a RAM with an 8 speed.
I would think it would have to be either the park pawl or a faulty shift sensor. I know that on mine, if you turn the motor off with the vehicle still in park, it shifts it back to park for you. The smoothness of the shifting is what made me think that it could be really good off road. Driving it in stop and go and on the highway it shifts about as perfectly as any transmission that I have ever experienced. Hard to describe but you never seem to be lugging in any of the gears like I have experienced with others. I wonder how this will translate when covering rough ground etc.
Regcabguy
Oil eater.
Excellent pts. Initially,I tried to order a Ram back in '06 and the fleetguy here was perplexed at why I didn't want the electronic transfercase setup. And a manual transmission to boot? Ended up going with Dave Smith and salesguy agreed with me.
I too don't get the shift knob. More electronics and servos to f'up.
colodak
Adventurer
and yet, Eaton continues to make the Ultrashift, Volvo/Mack make the Ishift and Mdrive the standard order transmission, being ordered 3 to 1 over manuals. And yet BECO Trans., Commerce City, Co. only equips their trucks with Mdrives and ishifts, including with several million combined miles of reliable operation.
colodak
Adventurer
waiting for my dealer to get a diesel 1500 4x4 in to test drive, supposed to be here next week sometime
Larry
Bigassgas Explorer
Here we go again with your class 8 truck examples that have zero in common with the electric shift ZF 8 speed automatics or electric shift transfercase. You do realize you are comparing apples to oranges right? In fact, the transmissions you listed above are all actually manual transmissions that have been automated with simple solenoids to operate the clutch fork and shift rails. Those solenoids serve a very simple on/off – in/out duty. Those solenoids are not much different than the small solenoids inside every automatic transmission over the past 15 plus years used to redirect fluid for the purpose of shifting gears.
See those electric motors on the shift tower of this Eaton….those are just simple on/off solenoids to move the shift fork just like a manual shift lever. There is another at the bottom to operate the clutch fork just like if someone was stepping on the clutch.
See the blue box on the side of this RAM ZF 8 speed, it is an encoder motor that moves the transmissions selector shaft to different positions for P, R, N, D, etc. Encoder motors are not a simple in/out solenoids like you keep bring up in your class 8 examples. Transfercases with electric shift also use multi-mode encoder motors. These type encoder motors have a much higher potential for failure. Allison transmission also uses an encoder motor like this on some applications that have proven not to be reliable in real world high duty cycle applications. Many fleets have removed them and gone back to manual cable operated shift levers.
I don’t have an issue with the automated manuals like you keep bringing up, I have an issue where encoder motors are used where a simple reliable shift cable or linkage can do the same job and do a much more reliable job while doing so.
Allof75
Pathfinder
Jeez guys, yet another epic battle rages on :lurk: But to me, it's new technology so speculating on its reliability is aimless. Considering they power BMWs, Audis, LRs, and too many to list that are effectively used as limo/taxi duty all over the world, it's safe to say they ought to be at least reasonably reliable. ZF makes quality gear generally speaking.
Wow. I have to wonder if the poster above just read the same thread I did.
I read Larry's excellent input as it's not new technology, it has been in use and failing in the class 8 market. The examples used to represent it's success were clearly identified as significantly different methods of shifting, one simply automating the manual functions, the other less successful method appears to be what is being attempted on the Ram 8 speed.
The transmission is not the issue, the method of shifting is the issue.
Reading comprehension; it's apparently not for everyone.....
I read Larry's excellent input as it's not new technology, it has been in use and failing in the class 8 market. The examples used to represent it's success were clearly identified as significantly different methods of shifting, one simply automating the manual functions, the other less successful method appears to be what is being attempted on the Ram 8 speed.
The transmission is not the issue, the method of shifting is the issue.
Reading comprehension; it's apparently not for everyone.....
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Interesting observations, as the system is relatively new I guess nobody will know for a while on this particular unit. While reliability of the transmission and the electronic shifting could be another thread, that may have been discussed (i don't know) My purpose was not to start an argument but to inquire if anyone has used this combo off roading, and inquire if the power distribution off road was as good as it was on the pavement.
I knew what I was getting into with the 8 speed and electronic tranny being new etc. Actually one of the reasons I bought the truck over the other two domestics was the 8 speed and the efficiency that it offered. Maybe when they get a few more miles on them, there will be more about their off road ability etc.
I knew what I was getting into with the 8 speed and electronic tranny being new etc. Actually one of the reasons I bought the truck over the other two domestics was the 8 speed and the efficiency that it offered. Maybe when they get a few more miles on them, there will be more about their off road ability etc.
A Class 8 may be the wrong choice, but hundreds of thousands of motor coaches, city buses, and rear engine RVs have been using electronic shift Allisons for decades. These workhorses are worked and shifted day in day out, much harder than most pickups. The Allisons are heavy duty, but fundamentally operates the same way as a light duty torque converter automatic.
I too like the rugged simplicity of a mechanical shift. Heck, a TH400 would last forever. But modern refinement and efficiency requirements means we don't have much of a choice
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
I wish people would get over "scary" electronic trannies. We have 915s with 5000000 miles on them. They have electronic Allison's in them.
Larry
Bigassgas Explorer
A Class 8 may be the wrong choice, but hundreds of thousands of motor coaches, city buses, and rear engine RVs have been using electronic shift Allisons for decades. These workhorses are worked and shifted day in day out, much harder than most pickups. The Allisons are heavy duty, but fundamentally operates the same way as a light duty torque converter automatic.
I too like the rugged simplicity of a mechanical shift. Heck, a TH400 would last forever. But modern refinement and efficiency requirements means we don't have much of a choice
Bingo! You’re right and it so happens I work for a class 5 thought 8 truck, bus and strip chassis manufacturer that builds those exact vehicles. Being I am on the after-sales side of the business and handle several national accounts, nobody ever calls me to tell me how much they love our stuff. The nature of my job is dealing with problems, everybody that rings my bell has a problem. Because of that, there are several things I have learned I would never own…the first being a late model diesel engine closely followed by an electric shifted transmission such as the one like the RAM ZF 8 speed.
I am not a guy that shuns technology, I love technology…..I am a guy that shoved a late model EFI engine that doesn’t even have a distributor and runs on two electric fuel pumps into a 70’s truck for the sake of reliability and economy. Where I draw the line is introducing technology into places it doesn’t need to be. How hard is it to pull a lever with a linkage or cable to a selector shaft? It’s not! Manufacturers introduce those gadgets for driver convenience and driver convenience has never had any relationship to durability or reliability. Think about most convenience items….ever notice they are always the first thing on vehicles to stop working; power windows, cruise control, fancy sunroofs, power mirrors, electric shift transfercases, etc.?? That is my point
When technology has nothing to add to durability and reliability the best way to avoid an issue is not get into in the first place. No electric shift for me thank you. You can all knock yourself out with it and let us know how you feel in 5 years :snorkel:
Hmmm, sounds like military? Glad to hear the military is having good luck with them as we have several thousand MRAPs in the military with the same transmission contraption but yet a fleet of several thousand package delivery trucks can’t make it 3 months without a major issue….odd. Makes you wonder who really has the toughest duty cycles.