Don’t air down Cooper tires!

[DaveInDenver]

However- “trails” in CO are really nothing more than county roads and forest service roads, per the MVUM ... If you are truly “off road” in CO you need to read up on the preachings of Stay The Trail

Do you mean full size trails, which are OHV recreational routes and not classified roads, which are for conveyance? The ones you need an OHV permit regardless of your vehicle's status with plates or not.

https://staythetrail.org/full-size-trails/

 

[ExplorerTom]

Not to be rude but if you have to ask the manufacture what you can air down to for offroad conditions.... maybe you should just stay on the pavement with tires at the suggested psi . There is probably thousands of articles and videos available that would help you decide what psi to air down to for the terrain your tackling and the vehicle you drive .

I was asking the manufacturer to see how they responded to my inquiry. I honestly didn’t expect a legit answer. I knew it was a shot in the dark but at the time it was the middle of February and snow was preventing me from getting out too much so it was time to do that offseason research.

I’ve logged plenty of puncture free miles in dirt and sharp rocks so I must be doing something right. But thanks for the suggestion to stay on pavement.

 

[ExplorerTom]

Do you mean full size trails, which are OHV recreational routes and not classified roads, which are for conveyance?

I don’t know that I’ve ever used any of the “full size trails” that you need an OHV sticker for. I stick to county roads (CR) and mostly Forest Service roads (FS) that normally licensed vehicles can drive on.

I’m talking roads like Blanca Peak trail (FS975), Red Cone (FS565), Hackett Gulch (FS220), Red Elephant Hill (FS171.1), Chinaman Gulch (BLM6044). Each of those are “roads”, none of which are stock vehicle capable. But yet they are still roads.

 

[dreadlocks]

so staying on the trail is not real off-roading, even if you need an offroad permit to be on said trail.. and even if said trail is in no way a "road" used for anything but recreation and spits you out right where you started.. Guess your right, next time I'll just take a harley to Rampart Range and ride it down the hundreds of miles of trails since its a road bike and those are just roads.

When I forward a creek, am I still on the state road networks in the middle of the water? Your claim that there is no off-roading in colorado is semantical **************** and either your being purposefully dense as depleted uranium or you've never actually left your comfort zone and done any real exploring of this state in your short time here.

Our road signs in colorado are so interesting, its nice that the Mile-Hi Jeep Club maintains this section of our road networks:

 

[ExplorerTom]

Spring Creek Trail is Forest Service Road 712.2J.

If you ever wreck your rig while “offroad” in CO, you’ll be happy that you’re on a “road” when it comes time to file insurance or a police report. If you’re actually off the road, you’re screwed. Like I’ve said before: all these trails we have in CO, are actually County, Forest or BLM roads. Sure they may be maintained or “adopted” by various clubs, but ultimately they aren’t owned by the club. The club does cleanups and maintenance/repair to lessen the financial burden on the state/federal agency that owns the road as a way to help keep it open to “offroading”.

Yes it’s nothing more than semantics. And WOW! I can’t believe people get so worked up about it.

 

[ExplorerTom]

so staying on the trail is not real off-roading, even if you need an offroad permit to be on said trail

You don’t need an offroad permit to drive your highway licensed vehicle on Spring Creek- or most of the other “trails” in CO.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Interesting.

Do you have a link to that spec sheet?

No, they were given to me as hard copies by the Michelin technical rep in Australia about 15 years ago. They are copyright, so I won't reproduce them here, but the document reference is AR110688A dated 26th June 1998.
I used the info to create the following chart.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[tacollie]

Maybe you should have asked Cooper what you should air down to when you're on unpaved roads since the incident that caused you to contact them didn't happen off road.?

Am I the only one chucking at this thread?

 

[DaveInDenver]

No, they were given to me as hard copies by the Michelin technical rep in Australia about 15 years ago. They are copyright, so I won't reproduce them here, but the document reference is AR110688A dated 26th June 1998.

So data that is not available to the public. That is the point in the original point. A manufacturer isn't going to go on the record saying can run a tire size or inflation other than what is listed on the door sill. However, if you can get an engineer to speak in private there's sure to be technical information to the contrary.

The chart you include is based on protected (e.g expressive, not simple observable or empirical) data so you've already violated the copyright by reusing it, why not just post the document?

 

[shade]

What prompted me to contact Cooper was because last summer I was finishing up a trip around the Alpine Loop and Black Bear Pass and I noticed this gash in my sidewall while airing up in Telluride:


I was aired down for all my “off pavement” driving (in CO, you aren’t really offroading since all trails are county roads or forest service roads) and I know that another benefit of airing down is increased puncture resistance. Not sure where I got the gash, but I suspect it was just above the first switchback on Black Bear.

I got to wondering: if I was still at street pressures, would the offending rock have actually punctured the sidewall or would the same result have occured. And if I was aired down farther, would the gash severity have been lessened.

And oh BTW, called my buddy at Discount Tire, told him what happened and got a new tire the next week. Warranty.

I didn't realize their warranty would cover that type of damage. Cool.

Lower pressure allows the tyre to deform with less force, but it also allows the sidewall to bulge more at the bottom of the wheel. My guess is that you brushed the sidewall against something sharp and/or immovable. Similar damage may have occurred at low or high pressure to that area of the tyre, but since the bulge increased the overall width of your vehicle slightly, you may have missed the rock altogether if the tyres had been at a higher pressure.

Of course, you may have punctured the tyres through the tread while running a higher pressure, or gotten stuck, or detached your retinas over a washboard section. No, thanks. I remember the first time we aired down a friend's Jeep. "Why haven't we always been doing this?!?"

 

[javajoe79]

Firestone was implicated and suffered massive brand damage for poor tire quality as explorers w/out firestones were far less likely to explode, and was forced to recall those tires... but ultimately it was Ford whom set the recommended tire pressure far too low and trying to shoe horn the ranger chassis for an SUV which made it far more likely than other SUV's to roll over.

Firestone would likely not even exist today if they were liable for recommended tire pressures and not ford, the'd of been sued to oblivion.. which was kinda my point.

I remember it well. My father worked for Bridgestone/Firestone since the early 80s. If the tires had been inflated properly, they wouldn't have failed. It was the OEM tire for that truck and because of how the system works, was as cheap of a tire as they could make to satisfy Ford's requirements. He owned an Explorer at that time and we ran at least 30psi instead of 26. 26psi at high speeds built up too much heat and caused the failures. Plus as we all know, people don't check their tire pressures regularly so with a starting point of 26psi, there was zero safety margin.

People on Expo sure do waste time/worry over a lot of dumb crap.

I'll bet you guys are a blast to sit around a fire with.....after tire manufacture psi ratings we could discuss the dewey decimal system.

 

[Regcabguy]

so staying on the trail is not real off-roading, even if you need an offroad permit to be on said trail.. and even if said trail is in no way a "road" used for anything but recreation and spits you out right where you started.. Guess your right, next time I'll just take a harley to Rampart Range and ride it down the hundreds of miles of trails since its a road bike and those are just roads.

When I forward a creek, am I still on the state road networks in the middle of the water? Your claim that there is no off-roading in colorado is semantical **************** and either your being purposefully dense as depleted uranium or you've never actually left your comfort zone and done any real exploring of this state in your short time here.

Our road signs in colorado are so interesting, its nice that the Mile-Hi Jeep Club maintains this section of our road networks:
View attachment 520340

Staying on the trail would equal "tread lightly" wouldn't it?

 

[Ducky's Dad]

you've already violated the copyright by reusing it,

Don't think so. Fair use, non-commercial, etc.

"In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner."
https://fairuse.stanford.edu › Overview Sections › Fair Use

 

[DaveInDenver]

you've already violated the copyright by reusing it,

Don't think so. Fair use, non-commercial, etc.

"In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner."
https://fairuse.stanford.edu › Overview Sections › Fair Use

Do you suppose posts on this forum, owned by Overland International, Inc., are a noncommercial use?

I don't know and not sure I've ever read or agreed to any disclaimers. Content is moderated and it sometimes seems commentary critical of advertisers is curated carefully, so it's not truly an open public forum. I kind of assumed content here would be considered like content in Overland Journal, which I'd think would have to be cleared with Michelin before publication.

I honestly wonder now.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Parody of the Michelin Man and the estate of Marilyn Monroe, just to stay on the right side of the fair use doctrine.