Do's and Don'ts Towing Off Road

kb7our

Explorer
Whoknows said:
Hey, glad to see you made it on the forum. I agree with the above (airing down the trailer is something I'd like to hear more about -- not sure how that would help -- but I bet others can explain). Being a newbie myself, I'd say it is really about experience. Take it offroad often in easy conditions and/or in limited challenges. I gained a ton of experience this summer and now have a much better feel for how to wheel with the trailer. Enjoy!

Thanks for helping me get my private email message to the moderator so I could begin to post - much appreciated!

So far all great advice so keep it coming eveyone. Late 90's we had a Coleman Taos then upgraded to a couple of different TrailManor models pulling with a Yukon XL and the Prodigy controller which I kept after selling the Yukon to get the Jeep. Prodigy is installed and ready to go. I can certainly relate to the "take your time" suggestion and taking things slow. I learned this "mild" wheeling in late 80's with various Toyota trucks and a 4-Runner. The last few years we converted to RVing with our Dolphin. So the AT will be for the adventures all around AZ (we're near Phx) and in particular during the mild winters here. I now have my first jeep and the AT will be my first real off road trailer for my wife and I - two teenage daughters aren't interested. Of course the Golden will probably tag along. Back to more great reading. Man I wish I was ready to retire!
 

slosurfer

Adventurer
Thanks Martyn and Spressomon for the explanation of "airing down" in certain situations. That gives me a good place to start experimenting from.:arabia:
 

elcoyote

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0004
Our friend Doug who tows his Chaser with a nicely modified Rubicon put together a list of things that he felt were relevant specifically to his towing experiences on difficult off camber rocky trails such as the Rubicon. Here are his notes:

How to pull a trailer through the rocks


BEFORE:
-air down tires to less than 10 psi (based upon a 35x12.50x15)
-get center of gravity as low as possible (heavy items packed low in trailer body, 60% forward of axle, 40% behind)
-remove jack
-check hitch for tightness, obstructions underneath
-no exposed wiring, check brake lights
-rear tow point
-side ‘flop’ extraction points
-spotters line (and place to connect them)
-rock lights / reverse lights
-remove all excess weight
-check trailer brakes, with the vehicle and manual control
-brakes should be able to lock up when using manual control around 15-25 mph
-braking should be even between the two sides
-brakes should not lock up on dirt when using vehicle brakes at 3-7 mph
-tilt side mirrors down so you can see the tires of the trailer
-make sure safety chains are attached and out of the way. Make sure they can extend while turning without breaking

-STEEP CLILMBS:
-if you think traction is an issue, lock the vehicle axles before you start the climb
-front tires up slowly, rear tires may need a ‘bump’, trailer tires up slowly
-if the climb is consistent, keep momentum consistent
-if the climb has rocks or cracks, proceed across them slowly, while keeping momentum as needed
-choose your ‘line’ diligently, as you may not have a second chance.
-off-camber is not as crucial in a climb, but should still be considered if it is excessive
-anticipate your route 50 feet in advance, in order to position the trailer for the next obstacle

-STEEP DESCENTS:
-use engine compression whenever possible
-toggle the brake to keep the speed slow enough so the trailer does not bounce
-if the drop is off-camber, use a spotter line
-use the trailer brakes where needed (not in a sliding situation)

-TIGHT TURNS
-swing the vehicle wide enough to clear the trailer around the obstacle
-if the trailer is too close to a tree or rock, stack rocks or other objects next to the obstacle. When the trailer approaches, the tires will climb the stacked rocks and tilt the trailer away from the obstacle.
-check to see how off-camber the turn is and act appropriately
-use the trailer brakes manually to make the trailer turn SHARPER than the vehicle, when needed.

-OFF CAMBER
-this is perhaps the most difficult of challenges when wheeling with a trailer.
-DROP
-if the drop is larger than half of the size of the tire, use a spotters’ line on the opposite side.
-if possible, drop both trailer tires off at the same time
-if the trail is next to a drop off, use a spotters line
-PROCEED SLOWLY!!!! Let one tire drop off slowly, and then the opposite tire. do not increase speed between the two tires dropping!
-check the obstacle for the possibility of a slide. If one tires drops and then slides, the trailer WILL flop.

-TURNS
-proceed as slowly as possible.
-if the outside of the turn has a berm, use it to keep the trailer level.

-SPOTTERS' LINE (winchline.com)
-have two ready, or wrap one for use on both sides (trailer can switch leaning directions very quickly)
-attach to strong point. Anticipate obstacles on the side you are pulling, so you can keep a steady pull ALL of the way through the obstacle
-keep good communication with the driver, letting them know when to slow down for obstacles, for re-positioning of the spotters line, etc.

-BACKING UP
-use slow speed and small turns to avoid ‘jackknifing’ the trailer
-whenever possible, turn the trailer while still going forward to prepare it for the direction it needs to go in reverse.
-know how far you can back up before the bumper of the vehicle comes in contact with the tongue of the trailer
-be aware of the camber of the trailer before you back up, and if the camber will be greater or less as the trailer continues to back up.
-have reverse lights mounted on the trailer to help with visibility at night.
-make sure the area is clear of people before backing up.
-use the trailer brakes manually to make the trailer turn SHARPER than the vehicle.

-TROUBLE SHOOTING
-trailer keeps flopping
-driving too fast!
-too high tire pressure
-too high spring rate/torsion rate/air bag pressure
-center of gravity too high
-brake setting too high

Just to reiterate what Doug has said here, the number one cause of problems towing off road is driving too fast. Trailer suspensions, even independent systems, do not droop out like vehicle suspensions because there is a pivot point between the vehicle and trailer.

In wash board and rock crawling conditions, I air down my 33" trailer tires from 30 psi to 15 psi.

...and of course, practice, practice, practice...learn the characteristics of how your trailer handles before you put yourself in difficult conditions.
 
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kb7our

Explorer
Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

elcoyote said:
Our friend Doug who tows his Chaser with a nicely modified Rubicon put together a list of things that he felt were relevant specifically to his towing experiences on difficult off camber rocky trails such as the Rubicon. Here are his notes:

How to pull a trailer through the rocks


BEFORE:
-air down tires to less than 10 psi (based upon a 35x12.50x15)
-get center of gravity as low as possible (heavy items packed low in trailer body, 60% forward of axle, 40% behind)
-remove jack
-check hitch for tightness, obstructions underneath
-no exposed wiring, check brake lights
-rear tow point
-side ‘flop’ extraction points
-spotters line (and place to connect them)
-rock lights / reverse lights
-remove all excess weight
-check trailer brakes, with the vehicle and manual control
-brakes should be able to lock up when using manual control around 15-25 mph
-braking should be even between the two sides
-brakes should not lock up on dirt when using vehicle brakes at 3-7 mph
-tilt side mirrors down so you can see the tires of the trailer
-make sure safety chains are attached and out of the way. Make sure they can extend while turning without breaking

-STEEP CLILMBS:
-if you think traction is an issue, lock the vehicle axles before you start the climb
-front tires up slowly, rear tires may need a ‘bump’, trailer tires up slowly
-if the climb is consistent, keep momentum consistent
-if the climb has rocks or cracks, proceed across them slowly, while keeping momentum as needed
-choose your ‘line’ diligently, as you may not have a second chance.
-off-camber is not as crucial in a climb, but should still be considered if it is excessive
-anticipate your route 50 feet in advance, in order to position the trailer for the next obstacle

-STEEP DESCENTS:
-use engine compression whenever possible
-toggle the brake to keep the speed slow enough so the trailer does not bounce
-if the drop is off-camber, use a spotter line
-use the trailer brakes where needed (not in a sliding situation)

-TIGHT TURNS
-swing the vehicle wide enough to clear the trailer around the obstacle
-if the trailer is too close to a tree or rock, stack rocks or other objects next to the obstacle. When the trailer approaches, the tires will climb the stacked rocks and tilt the trailer away from the obstacle.
-check to see how off-camber the turn is and act appropriately
-use the trailer brakes manually to make the trailer turn SHARPER than the vehicle, when needed.

-OFF CAMBER
-this is perhaps the most difficult of challenges when wheeling with a trailer.
-DROP
-if the drop is larger than half of the size of the tire, use a spotters’ line on the opposite side.
-if possible, drop both trailer tires off at the same time
-if the trail is next to a drop off, use a spotters line
-PROCEED SLOWLY!!!! Let one tire drop off slowly, and then the opposite tire. do not increase speed between the two tires dropping!
-check the obstacle for the possibility of a slide. If one tires drops and then slides, the trailer WILL flop.

-TURNS
-proceed as slowly as possible.
-if the outside of the turn has a berm, use it to keep the trailer level.

-SPOTTERS' LINE (winchline.com)
-have two ready, or wrap one for use on both sides (trailer can switch leaning directions very quickly)
-attach to strong point. Anticipate obstacles on the side you are pulling, so you can keep a steady pull ALL of the way through the obstacle
-keep good communication with the driver, letting them know when to slow down for obstacles, for re-positioning of the spotters line, etc.

-BACKING UP
-use slow speed and small turns to avoid ‘jackknifing’ the trailer
-whenever possible, turn the trailer while still going forward to prepare it for the direction it needs to go in reverse.
-know how far you can back up before the bumper of the vehicle comes in contact with the tongue of the trailer
-be aware of the camber of the trailer before you back up, and if the camber will be greater or less as the trailer continues to back up.
-have reverse lights mounted on the trailer to help with visibility at night.
-make sure the area is clear of people before backing up.
-use the trailer brakes manually to make the trailer turn SHARPER than the vehicle.

-TROUBLE SHOOTING
-trailer keeps flopping
-driving too fast!
-too high tire pressure
-too high spring rate/torsion rate/air bag pressure
-center of gravity too high
-brake setting too high

Just to reiterate what Doug has said here, the number one cause of problems towing off road is driving too fast. Trailer suspensions, even independent systems, do not droop out like vehicle suspensions because there is a pivot point between the vehicle and trailer.

In wash board and rock crawling conditions, I air down my 33" trailer tires from 30 psi to 15 psi.

...and of course, practice, practice, practice...learn the characteristics of how your trailer handles before you put yourself in difficult conditions.


I can see how with the type of coupler used one can "forget" they are towing. I had to work through this issue the first time towing behind the RV - Jeep is set up for flat towing also. I do intend to take it slow and learn the ropes from a lot of reading but more importantly getting out and practicing.

On another note, I feel compelled to state that I have been a real pest to Martyn with continuous email questions and I have been quite stunned actually at how patient he has been providing great information and explanations back. I've had a few email contacts with Mario too. These guys are a "class act" if I have ever seen one!
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
kb7our said:
On another note, I feel compelled to state that I have been a real pest to Martyn with continuous email questions and I have been quite stunned actually at how patient he has been providing great information and explanations back. I've had a few email contacts with Mario too. These guys are a "class act" if I have ever seen one!

Sorry to inform you, kb7our has exceeded the maximum e mail replies allowed per AT customer. All future e mails will be answered using our automated reply. Have a nice Day :)
 

Tucson T4R

Expedition Leader
Martyn said:
Sorry to inform you, kb7our has exceeded the maximum e mail replies allowed per AT customer. All future e mails will be answered using our automated reply. Have a nice Day :)

ATTA BOY Martyn!! :shakin: :hehe: :jump:
 

spressomon

Expedition Leader
Great post up Mario!!! Thanks!!! Not to give you advice (ah what the heck)...but that list should come with your trailers...for us newb trailer types that like to get into trouble...:)
 

elcoyote

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0004
spressomon said:
Great post up Mario!!! Thanks!!! Not to give you advice (ah what the heck)...but that list should come with your trailers...for us newb trailer types that like to get into trouble...:)

Dan, we too thought it was a good write up with valuable advice. Doug just gave me the list on Friday after returning from the Rubicon where he approached the trail with his trailer in tow through Wentworth, one of the more difficult routes. With a little editing, we are planning to include it in our orientation for the benefit of "Those trailer types that like to get in trouble" :) .
 

kb7our

Explorer
Time for a new email id

Martyn said:
Sorry to inform you, kb7our has exceeded the maximum e mail replies allowed per AT customer. All future e mails will be answered using our automated reply. Have a nice Day :)

Martyn,

If some strange new email id pops up and starts asking you guys more questions about ATs and it "seems" like it is coming from kb7our do not fear - you are probably in contact with my twin brother.
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
How to; Off Road Towing, article and video

I pulled together Doug Williams words of wisdom on Off Road Towing Technique and the 3 part video of his Rubicon crossing. It's posted on our new Resource Library page at http://www.atreport.com/resourcelibrary.html The article is also available as a pdf download from our site.

It works best if you read the article and then watch the videos, because a lot of what Doug says in the article is seen taking place in the video.
 
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DaktariEd

2005, 2006 Tech Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
Excellent information again, Martyn!
Thanks for the great "Resource Library" you've put up on ATReport!

safari.gif
 

Tucson T4R

Expedition Leader
Great thread! I just got back from a one nighter and drove into a fairly rugged area with my trailer. When I got to the campsite I needed to turn around and back in to where I wanted the trailer. I drove down a hill to my right and then tried to back up.

The trailer keep sliding around on me and my tires kept slipping. After several tries I was just about to set the trailer brake, chock the wheels and disconnect and drive around and pull the trailer back up the hill from behind.

Now remember (and be nice) I'm a newbe towing offorad trailers. When I got out to set the trailer's parking brake, i quickly realized why I couldn't push the trailer back up the hill. In addition to electric brakes, my trailer also has surge brakes. Unless you flip a lever to block the surge brakes, when you push the trailer in reverse up a hill, you fully engage the trailer brakes. :oops:

Once disabling the surge brakes, I quite easily pushed the trailer up the hill and onto the flats. Gee, imagine that. I was just a little embarrassed to say the least.

You can list this under the don't side of the offroad trailers do's and don'ts.:shakin:
 
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I'll come from the angle of my profession, which is 100% dealing with trailers (I drive a truck and train new truck drivers).

PRACTICE BACKING UP. This is the toughest part of having a trailer, and the toughest to master.

Once you get it, take a whole saturday and back it up. Practice in a school parking lot or something, take your time and the 3 most important (in succession) exercises are-
1. Straight line.
2. Sight-side backing. (Trailer moving to the left)
3. Blind-side backing. (Trailer to the right)

practice them in an open parking lot, then in your driveway/lawn, then in dirt or sand, and ONLY WHEN YOU FEEL CONFIDENT, and realize how things should look in your mirrors, take it offroad.

Nothing worse than watching someone screw up their camper at a campground out here by backing it into trees and fencing because their ego was too big to practice doing it RIGHT at home.

And nothing more accomplished than watching someone backup their trailer like a pro.

And great post by elcoyote.
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Tucson T4R said:
Great thread! I just got back from a one nighter and drove into a fairly rugged area with my trailer. When I got to the campsite I needed to turn around and back in to where I wanted the trailer. I drove down a hill to my right and then tried to back up.

The trailer keep sliding around on me and my tires kept slipping. After several tries I was just about to set the trailer brake, chock the wheels and disconnect and drive around and pull the trailer back up the hill from behind.

Now remember (and be nice) I'm a newbe towing offorad trailers. When I got out to set the trailer's parking brake, i quickly realized why I couldn't push the trailer back up the hill. In addition to electric brakes, my trailer also has surge brakes. Unless you flip a lever to block the surge brakes, when you push the trailer in reverse up a hill, you fully engage the trailer brakes. :oops:

Once disabling the surge brakes, I quite easily pushed the trailer up the hill and onto the flats. Gee, imagine that. I was just a little embarrassed to say the least.

You can list this under the don't side of the offroad trailers do's and don'ts.:shakin:

All the KK's I've seen have the hydraulic brake system. Yours has electric brakes and hydraulic, never heard of that before. Was that standard equipment??

The great thing about making mistakes is we learn way more from them than doing everything correctly. Over a few beers I'll share the screw ups I've made :)
 

Tucson T4R

Expedition Leader
Martyn said:
All the KK's I've seen have the hydraulic brake system. Yours has electric brakes and hydraulic, never heard of that before. Was that standard equipment??

The great thing about making mistakes is we learn way more from them than doing everything correctly. Over a few beers I'll share the screw ups I've made :)


The Oz Kimberly Kampers have hydraulic systems but the US King Kamper versions have Dexter axles with electric brakes, coupled with a cable operated surge brake (off the piston in the Treg hitch). If you didn't attach the electric brakes, you would still have the mechanicaly actuated surge brakes. You also use the cable actuated mechanical brake as the parking brake.

I knew all this, but still let that knowledge hide away while I was freaking out trying to back up a lose hill in the middle of nowhere. :D
 
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