Driving in Sand

[gait]

probably wrong forum but I couldn't find the right one.

One of the videos highlighted in the top band on the portal caught my eye. Driving in sand tracks.
https://expeditionportal.com/votd-driving-in-sand-tracks/

It surprised me that no mention was made of tyre pressures.

My limited experience of driving the Canter in sand is a bit different to the video.

 

[yabanja]

I experimented significantly with pressures in Fido on a recent 10k mile trip. Running 37x12.5 17" tires. In VERY soft sand at highway pressure (50psi) the truck was having difficulty progressing-ie the engine will bog but the truck still moves ok in 2nd gear low range. Lower the pressures to 20 and you are suddenly invincible the difference is really profound. The truck could easily be driven in high range 2nd or 3rd gear at the low pressure.

My 2 cents.

Allan

 

[DetroitDarin]

Uh....yeah. I'd suppose tire pressure is of paramount importance to sand driving. Probably 85% tire pressure, 15% momentum and another 10% driving skill.

As an example - sand dune driving on 315/70/17 Dura's, I went down to 19psi and couldn't make it up a huge dune. I went down to 16 and the truck went right up. Don't lose a bead, but air down a lot.

 

[s.e.charles]

Hi Gait,

Your correct! I watched the video and their was no mention of lowering the pressure. I have over 45 years of driving experience much of it in sand. I am a I4WDTA certified instructor/educator. If you have any questions on sand driving I will be happy to answer them. I would prefur to do it by personal email. The two reasions is the form has limits on the size of the post and I get long-winded. Second is over the years there are people who think that they know it all and want to argue with everything that is said. That is their provocative to do that. I just do not like to waist my time with these type of people. I will start a conservation (PM) with you with my personal email.

Da Frenchman

and sometimes that is their only reason!

but many of us would benefit by your knowledge & experience. please reconsider and not make many pay for the few.

thanks

 

[s.e.charles]

Uh....yeah. I'd suppose tire pressure is of paramount importance to sand driving. Probably 85% tire pressure, 15% momentum and another 10% driving skill.

As an example - sand dune driving on 315/70/17 Dura's, I went down to 19psi and couldn't make it up a huge dune. I went down to 16 and the truck went right up. Don't lose a bead, but air down a lot.

nice water crossing!

how would the guideline be set to avoid "too low"; what I assume you mean by "lose a bead"?

and, although unrelated, does what I believe to be a HAM antenna, cause a peripheral distraction driving on-road, or do you get "used-of-it"?

thanks

 

[DetroitDarin]

For the tires - I can't come up with a universal too-low figure. That's depending on tire make, wheel design maybe too?

What kind of tires/wheels are we talking? On those duratracs I think 15psi is okay. Softer side-wall tires might need more pressure.

That was merely a Flag on a whip-pole-thing. Wasn't an antenna. I didn't mind it the days I was at the dunes.

 

[s.e.charles]

whew! one concern I can cross off my list.

[Frenchie] "Do not worry you will not reach China."

thank you for the very complete answer. have a good trip - questions will be waiting upon your return.

 

[Aussie Iron]

You're covering it well. Same as what I believe. The diference between desert sand and beach sand you have to see to believe.

Dan.

 

[68camaro]

Use this at your own risk. If you do not know what your doing I suggest that you get a I4WDTA certified trainer/educator/teacher to get the proper hands on training. I4WDTA people are now on 5 continents.

This is under appreciated idea. I took a one-on-one 2 day class using my Jeep WK2 with one of these certified instructors. I was always concernned about pushing my Grand Cherokee too far since I travel alone off beaten-path. In the class we spend several class hours going over Jeeps 4x4 systems, how they work why and when to use them. In the field I learned that the Jeep was way more capable than me or I understood and we tested it extensively and thoroughly in all types of situations. I also have understanding of Jeeps limitations and weak points.

I am much more comfortable and confident off-road with understanding what I can, cannot and probably should not do. Along with driving instruction my class included recovery technigues with hands-on experience and tire repairs in field.

 

[s.e.charles]

is there a link to the "14WDTA" website/ organization?

 

[DetroitDarin]

https://americanadventurist.com/forum/threads/international-4wd-trainers-association.5147/

 

[68camaro]

is there a link to the "14WDTA" website/ organization?

https://i4wdta.org/get-trained/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

In addition to Frenchie's Tome, I would add the thickness and flexibility of the sidewalls as a determinant. I've had very wide off road tires for Jeeps that had little flexibility, so had to lower the pressure down to 4 pounds to get any sidewall flex or floatation. Then again, I had some tires with very flexible sidewalls that needed much less air taken out, down to only 12 pounds to do the job. Another observation is taller sidewalls are better at deflating/floatation than short sidewalls. ".5" tires do not deflate very well because of the lack of safety beads on the rims of say 19.5" tires/wheels which want to walk off the rims at even medium pressure unless you have inner and outer beadlocks. Even then, the short sidewall precludes much sand running/floatation. Yet another observation for me was, "keep your track as close to level as you can when going over dunes. With just a little canting to one side or the other on hills can cause immediate shifting and submersion to that side and a roll over, especially in deep blow sand. Over the years all of Frenchie's observations about sand have been driven home with my own live action experience. jefe

 

[gait]

here's a short (1 minute) video of 4.5 tonnes on 19.5" 285/70R19.5 at around 25 psi in Simpson dune sand (up east side). A little lower needed for "little red". Walked back for a look see if there were any little hills in the tracks (wheel spin).

http://epicycles.com/Truck Blog/2017-06-08/P1100364.MP4

while resting for a few days (waiting for parts) we watched many different vehicles pass. Initially we scored out of 10 for crossing the dune. We changed that to separate marks for "artistic excellence" and "technique" to separate those who would take a run at it so as to take off at the top and those who simply drove up.

I make no claims to having any particular expertise, but perhaps some experience.

 

[ITTOG]

I have never driven in sand and hope I never will as I hate sand. But I am curious about the purpose of airing down. Is it to make the tire wider or to cause the tire to be cupped in the center. Or both I guess. If it is just to be wider, Then you could argue a 15" wide tire doesn't need to air down?????

As stated, no experience. Just curious.