Dual batteries: Fancy kit or regular kit?

[Albin]

I think I am going to go for the isolator set up. I have an Optima Deep Cycle as the aux battery and a regular battery running the truck, the lamps and the fridge without issue right now. I think an isolator with a switch to switch back and forth between batteries would probably work? Maybe something like this?
http://www.quadratec.com/products/17004_201.htm

Im not that good with electrical stuff. I can do it but would prefer mechanical work over electrical all day long. Switching the lamps and winch over to the aux deep cycle would give me a chance to clean up the previous owners ridiculousness.

Nothing wrong with that kit except that it's about $200 over priced.

A continuous duty relay(80/250 IRC) can be had from Surplus Center for about $7 +/-. The rest is cable, wiring and electrical terminals. There certainly isn't +$200 worth of stuff to buy.

 

[CanuckMariner/Nomad]

I have the National Luna and love it. VERY simple install, and works flawlessly. The only thing I would change would be not to buy the kit. I end up not using the wire since it was undersized, but then it sounds like you don't need the kit, so you are good to go.

One word of caution. While researching my setup, and then again in the instructions I came across a warning out wiring up the winch. Everything I have found says to wire up the winch to the main/factory battery and NOT the aux battery. They suggest this because the power the winch pulls can severely damage or distroy the battery isolator/sillinoid switch. Not sure if that is true or not, but the explination makes sense from an "electrical" standpoint.

Hope that helps, and good luck with your setup.

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos

The NL kit is one of the best and easiest to install set-ups in the industry, with all the versatility one could ever want. Yes it is expensive ~$375 (Equipt1.com) but worth it considering you don't need anything else. No driving around town looking for parts, no phoning, etc. You can boost your start (hard winters) with a parallel start, monitor both batteries, etc.

Yes, it is not good to put a winch on aux battery, as it draws near or more than 100 amps. The main battery always get a larger charge (first charge) than the aux to get it back up to par for starting, hence the winch will draw on it and the alternator will keep up with it. Also, do not put the winch on the side posts (if your battery has them like an Optima Red top) as then can not handle the 100 plus amps. And yes the negative should be to the negative of the battery not the frame/chassis.

Another thing that is good for all batteries (AGMs, etc) that are rechargeable from the bottom up (read NOT the factory starting battery), it is a good idea to discharge (leave head lamps on over night) them routinely. Then recharge with a normal charger to about 6 volts and then use a smart charger (trickle) to get them back to the 12.5-13.5 volts (as per Optima/Interstate instructions). Like all rechargeable batteries, they will forget (hysteresis) the portion of the battery that is not used over and over again. Optima either does it at the factory or recommends complete discharging of a new AGM batteries before use. Extends life for up to +50%. Additionally, when an item is not used continuously, like a camera or net book PC, which is used with a rechargeable battery, it is better to remove the battery, fully discharge it and store it like that until just before use. I do this with my camera, PC batteries all the time and now get much better life out of them.

Hope this helps some of you.:costumed-smiley-007

 

[ntsqd]

For $200 or less I'd go with something like this BEP unit.
http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/62603-100a-single-engine-two-bank-cluster-voltage-sensitive-relay.html

Bear in mind that the 100A rating is the Charge rating for the relay, not the absolute current carrying capacity of the switch. 275/1250 is the switch's amp rating.
Had I not already bought this: http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/62483-125a-vsr-140a-intermittent-125a-continuous-2-7-h-x-2-7-w-x-2-d.html and already own a Perko battery switch it would be my choice.

 

[Viggen]

ntsqd, I like the first switch youve listed but I want a second battery for the extra power not just to be able to boost the main battery when needed so a built in 2 position switch wont work for me. I already have quality cabling routed (the PO was really into stereo so it looked like it was wired for capacitors, etc... so there is some quality cabling there), 8 Hellas, winch, fridge, work lamp, amp and the things run on a stock disco, which switch should I purchase? Also, I have a 100 amp alternator on it. The main battery is going to power the truck itself and the fridge while the second, deep cycle is going to power the winch and aux lighting. Can I combine one of these switches (dont know which one really):

http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/62483...-w-x-2-d.html?AID=10540053&PID=3952491&CID=cj

with this switch:
http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/3056-4-position-compact-battery-switch-1-both-2-alt-field-disc.html

so that I can run both batteries if I want or select only the main battery when the lights and winch arent needed?

 

[esh]

The 300A BEP incorporates the switch into the unit, plus provides a plug for an in-cab switch. That is the easiest way to tell what you are getting. Every other BEP isolator has no switch on the housing.

http://bepmarine.com/home-mainmenu-8/product-314/722-ne-300a-electric-battery-switch

The link posted above is the BEP 125A version that requires purchase of a separate switch. Why not just get it in one package and simplify?

Specs, which blow the other isolators away, and negates worrying about where you connect a winch:

# Continuous Rating: 300 Amps DC
# Intermittent Rating: 400 Amps DC
# Cranking Rating: 1250 Amps DC

Ebay has had them for $135 pretty regularly. Search for BEP 300A, or search on froogle.google.com. Add a meter and you are well under half the $$$ NL setup that everyone on this site is in love with, plus you are getting a setup with much greater capacity handling. :drool:

 

[Viggen]

So, what is "auto" on the switch? Will it allow the main battery to run the truck while Im drawing power from the second battery during, say, winching?

 

[Viggen]

Nevermind, I read up about the VSR and the auto switch could do exactly what I want without having to do the thinking which is awesome.

Heres my question: This is pretty much exactly what I want to do. Does this look like a good schematic to work off of? Having the body fuse box, main battery and starter wired to the VSR and then the second battery with the winch and aux lighting running off of it?

(borrowed schematic from above referenced site: http://www.risingsun4x4club.org/forum2/showthread.php?t=11009 )

 

[esh]

I run the truck, HID aux lights, and winch off main and audio amps, fridge, radios, nav computer, extreme aire compressor and other heavy 12V accessories off aux. It depends a lot on your truck, types of accessories and how they are used.

My engine is a mechanical injection pump turbo diesel and takes 4 wires to run the motor (starter, glow relay, alt, fuel cutoff) so I don't have to worry much about electric drain or leak from engine systems (computers, sensors, etc). The biggest main battery draw is probably brake lights and starter because I avoid driving at night. Aux is constantly in a discharge state with all the crap running in the truck.

 

[Viggen]

Ill be going mechanical diesel within a few months but for now its still a gas motor and being a 95, it has a fuse box under the bonnet with main fuses. Would it not be smart to connect the fuse box to the VSR like the schematic? Im afraid that if it isnt, when out wheeling and doing things, if the power in the main battery which powers the body of the truck, is full and the VSR switches to top off the aux battery, wouldnt my truck die? Am I way off with that?

 

[ntsqd]

The VSR only connects the aux battery in parallel to the main battery when the main has reached a full charge. Once that happens the aux battery receives charge and the vehicle runs off of both batteries until the ignition is turned off or the alternator's output voltage drops below the VSR's minimum threshold. Then the VSR disconnects the two batteries.

When running with a fully charged main and the VSR "closed" (i.e. connecting the two batteries together) if you should need to winch I strongly advise flipping the battery bank switch to "ALL" so that winching current from the second battery isn't being drawn through the VSR.

 

[Nullifier]

I have been running a basic napa battery isolator for years with no issues. Just select one that is rate for your alt output. My red top feeds the basic truck and I have a yellow top for the add ons.

This system is not as energy efficient as the high dollar unit but It is half the cost and not failed yet.

 

[Viggen]

The VSR only connects the aux battery in parallel to the main battery when the main has reached a full charge. Once that happens the aux battery receives charge and the vehicle runs off of both batteries until the ignition is turned off or the alternator's output voltage drops below the VSR's minimum threshold. Then the VSR disconnects the two batteries.

When running with a fully charged main and the VSR "closed" (i.e. connecting the two batteries together) if you should need to winch I strongly advise flipping the battery bank switch to "ALL" so that winching current from the second battery isn't being drawn through the VSR.

So, should I just throw the VSR on in between the two batteries or is it going to require a rewiring like the above diagram? Right now, I have the main battery powering the starter, fridge, aux lamps and fuse boxes with a positive cable running across the truck to the yellow top battery which will be running the winch and a ground cable for that. The second battery is not hooked up right now but I want it to be. How would I wire in the VSR? The lights and winch will be powered off of the second battery while the truck and its fuses along with the fridge will be run off the main. Im a visual learning type so is there a diagram somewhere? Thanks.

 

[jesusgatos]

Wrangler NW systems

I used their kit in one of my old Jeeps and was really pleased with it.

Thanks for the link ntsqd.

 

[dzzz]

The NL kit is one of the best and easiest to install set-ups in the industry, with all the versatility one could ever want. Yes it is expensive ~$375 (Equipt1.com) but worth it considering you don't need anything else. No driving around town looking for parts, no phoning, etc. You can boost your start (hard winters) with a parallel start, monitor both batteries, etc.

Yes, it is not good to put a winch on aux battery, as it draws near or more than 100 amps. The main battery always get a larger charge (first charge) than the aux to get it back up to par for starting, hence the winch will draw on it and the alternator will keep up with it. Also, do not put the winch on the side posts (if your battery has them like an Optima Red top) as then can not handle the 100 plus amps. And yes the negative should be to the negative of the battery not the frame/chassis.

Another thing that is good for all batteries (AGMs, etc) that are rechargeable from the bottom up (read NOT the factory starting battery), it is a good idea to discharge (leave head lamps on over night) them routinely. Then recharge with a normal charger to about 6 volts and then use a smart charger (trickle) to get them back to the 12.5-13.5 volts (as per Optima/Interstate instructions). Like all rechargeable batteries, they will forget (hysteresis) the portion of the battery that is not used over and over again. Optima either does it at the factory or recommends complete discharging of a new AGM batteries before use. Extends life for up to +50%. Additionally, when an item is not used continuously, like a camera or net book PC, which is used with a rechargeable battery, it is better to remove the battery, fully discharge it and store it like that until just before use. I do this with my camera, PC batteries all the time and now get much better life out of them.

Hope this helps some of you.:costumed-smiley-007

I'm sorry but I'm bewildered by the info above. All the better battery companies write technical papers. I like to think that companies that make batteries for commercial aircraft and ocean going vessels know their products. Marine electrical design is a huge and serious business. You don't see Optima Red or someones expensive hobby battery separator on a real boat.

There's no reason to believe Optima Red Top is a deep cycle battery. They infer a lot of features but provide no comparable specs. Actual AGM deep cycle batteries take a high charge through the absorption phase. Battery life is rated by the number of deep discharge. Intentional deep discharge will shorten life.

The NL thing seems to be made in some guy named Ed's basement. A marine automatic charge relay is much higher quality and spec. The NL blinky lights can be replaced with a $25 digital voltmeter/alarm. That's two purchases instead of one but it saves $150+ and is much nicer equipment. Put $100 towards a battery not marketed by color and pocket $50.

All the products in this thread are directly comparable on technical merit alone. This isn't a "Land Rover or Range Rover" type discussion.

Blue Sea
VoltMinder
Lifeline

Edit: I'm sure the BEP products are fine too. Any of the mainstream marine switching product sold to ocean going vessels will be very high quality. Cheaper automotive electrical products are suppose to cost less.



.

 

[Viggen]

Im looking into the Perfect Switch Power Gate. Seems great.

http://www.off-roadweb.com/tech/0803or_dual_battery_setup_seamless_switching/index.html