Duals for expo?
- Thread starter RU55ELL
- Start date
Stan the Man
Adventurer
Depends on what kind of terrain you plan on seeing. If you plan on being in a lot of rocks go duals. If not, save the money and spend it elsewhere.
87FoRunner
Adventurer
4.7 in a single case...
If you break a rear driveshaft, you can grab one out of a junkyard to get you home. And you can always use the higher gears to start out if you find 4.7 too low.
If you break a rear driveshaft, you can grab one out of a junkyard to get you home. And you can always use the higher gears to start out if you find 4.7 too low.
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
I dunno man... I was in 4Lo in the snow the other week and I was litteraly starting in 3rd and topping out at 50 or so in 5th... WIth a stock T-Case... I can't imagine how low your top speed would be let alone how little wheel speed you could get up with a single 4.7, alot of times around here at least, some of the only obstacles to getting in andf out of certain spotas are mud. 4HI with a 22RE's not much good unless you're bombing fire-roads.
What I'd kind of like I think... and please feel free to critique this theory as to any relevent technical errors and assumptions I've made
... is a set of slightly lower 4HI gears to compensate for the loss of power in 4wd making 4HI drive more like 2HI and then a set of like 3.9 ( I thought someone used to makes these for some reason) Low gears. best of both worlds: The ability to spin/clear the tires using 4HI and then the ability to crawl better with the lower Low set. Something I always loved about my old WC-VW tranny's also, and something I think would really help in a 4cyl truck, would be a lower first gear for my 5spd (like out of the Turbo R151 I belive) ANd I'd LOVE to have a 6spd (not gonna happen).I do however completely agree with your statement of a single case being "better" for Expo trips for repair possibilities, BUT, then everyone has a differe nt defenition of what an "expodition" truly is so maybe some guys NEED Dual cases to get where they want to go... PLus if you've ever driven a dual-cased Toyota, it's amazing what they'll do just with the gearing alone because you have all the durability advantages of the Manual-tranny with the ability to pretty much set-it and forget it for a given obstacle like an auto. you litteraly NEVER need to touch the clutch at all unless you really need to spin the wheels. It trully is an awesome experience, I highly suggest it
Anyway sorry for the ramble... My Toyota is in the shop ...
It's a long horrible story and I won't clutter this thread with that mess...
CHeers
Dave
4cruzer
Adventurer
I am biased, as I LOVE my dual setup (I'd never go back). The nice thing about duals is retaining that factory 4 low when you want it. If I ever go '4 wheeling (?)' I find myself using the 4.7 case almost exclusively, but it's simply too slow for normal, slow, rough road driving. I would be bummed to have ONLY the 4.7 in the rear.
I never thought about the idea of being able to swap in a junkyard driveshaft. It's a great option to have. My truck has a lot of negative travel (droop) so I had to get a long slip shaft even before I went with the dual cases, but a junkyard shaft would be a great temporary fix; good point.
I like the idea that if I do want to drive over some nasty bits, I can do so without hammering the truck. It's nice to let the truck idle and pick your way over rather then bouncing it up over obstacles with momentum...
Another bonus is that so long as you are ok welding on your new shift levers, you can make it possible to lock your truck in double low as a hell of a theft prevention system....
I never thought about the idea of being able to swap in a junkyard driveshaft. It's a great option to have. My truck has a lot of negative travel (droop) so I had to get a long slip shaft even before I went with the dual cases, but a junkyard shaft would be a great temporary fix; good point.
I like the idea that if I do want to drive over some nasty bits, I can do so without hammering the truck. It's nice to let the truck idle and pick your way over rather then bouncing it up over obstacles with momentum...
Another bonus is that so long as you are ok welding on your new shift levers, you can make it possible to lock your truck in double low as a hell of a theft prevention system....
87FoRunner
Adventurer
My 4Runner will have (ultimate) duals, My Tacoma will have a single "Lefty" with a 4.0 or 4.7 (when money permits)
They are different animals, and modded for their specific purposes. If this were a crawler, it would be duals without a doubt. If this was Pirate4x4, TTORA, or a simlar off road/crawler site I old say duals without a doubt.
But this is ExPo- K.I.S.S.
They are different animals, and modded for their specific purposes. If this were a crawler, it would be duals without a doubt. If this was Pirate4x4, TTORA, or a simlar off road/crawler site I old say duals without a doubt.
But this is ExPo- K.I.S.S.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
After riding up Cadillac Hill in a Trekker with 4.7's in it I decided that even 4.0's are lower than what I'd want. If 3.5's were available I'd be all over a set of them. On that hill with his axle gearing (what ever it was), 2nd gear was too low and 3rd gear was too high.
This from a guy who has a complete Marlin doubler sitting in his garage. With no immediate plans to install it.
This from a guy who has a complete Marlin doubler sitting in his garage. With no immediate plans to install it.
87FoRunner
Adventurer
4.7:1 and 2nd gear make a good combo for not-so-difficult sections.
BLKNBLU
Explorer
Too funny! Exactly what happened to me.
I have a single 4.7 in my truck now. I wanted to put in duals but ran out of money and patience with my build up. So I fudged with the single case. As I feared, I was tooling down a trail a while back wishing I had my 2.28 available. Too slow in 4.7, too little oomph in 1:1. It's not awful, it just could be better. I still do enough crawling that I'm glad I have the 4.7 overall.
I'm currently just trying to drive the truck around now to decide if it will work as an Expo rig before I drop any more cash into it for either purpose. I have the feeling right now that it is not going to work as a dual purpose vehicle, at least given my financial and storage restraints.
pcampbell
Adventurer
Just a side note, with duals, you can set the front and rear driveshafts up to be the same length (at least on 1st gen 4runners, not sure about other things). So if you break the rear, you can use your front to keep going.
I totally agree about the dual 2.28 cases though. 4.7 is just not practical and with dual 2.28 you are stock except when you need to crawl.
I totally agree about the dual 2.28 cases though. 4.7 is just not practical and with dual 2.28 you are stock except when you need to crawl.
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
First off: 4Cruzer I LOVE YOUR 1ST GEN!!!!!!!!!!! Such a nice example. I miss my truck and I'm counting the hours untill it's back with me in the seat... For now I'm driving my Dad's 98XJ Up-Country adn I vividly remember why I went to Toyotas
BUT, like I maintain...For most "Expo" type use I'd guess that mayb e a 3.0 or so like someone said would be awesome. Either that or again, Duals with a 2.28/4.7 Combo ( I would NEVER run 4.7/4.7's... just too little wheel speed posibility for my type of trails/terrain)... Remember, if your Diffs are geared to match your tires then your 4HI will more then likely do just fine for most "slippery" situations, and then you have stock Low range for everything else.
I just thought of something else too... Why not a Klune-V underdrive??? that way, when 4LO is just not low enough, hit the underdrive, then once clear, it's back to 4LO. Same basic principal as a doubler but it could possibly make for a shorter Tranny/T-case combo (not sure about this). by the same token you could run a 4.7 Case and a Saturn over-drive and when 4.7's too low, hit the OD and SHAZAM!!!!!! Either way when it comes down to it, I'm a guy adn the more levers and buttons my truck has for me to play with the better eh
Again, clearly I'm rambling but hey, this p[lace is great for stuff like that...you know people tolerating my rambles
Cheers
Dave
yeah see that's exactly what I was thinking about my experience with Duals for an Expo rig... IMO it's either a 2.28/4.7 Doubler or a stock Single case. A single 4.7 is just too LOW for Expo travel. But like I said, we all have different defenitions of what an Expedition is...Build your truck to suit your definition/needs.
That is something I think is part of what I meant by "you've gotta experience it" cause while you DO have alot more torque multiplication to help you break drive-line parts... If you're smart, dual cases can help you to keep your truck ALIVE on really nasty trails. Your clutch alone (if you're running a manual obv.) will love you SO much just cause you won't have to slip it constantly to get it over an obstacle. It really is amazing to just feel the truck C............R..........AAAAAAAAAAAA.......W.......L Over, up around and through everything. look on youtube for the Vid of Marlin pulling his famous "look ma no hands" trick on the Rubicon where he litteraly get's out of the truck while it's IN GEAR on top of a boulder, checks his line/spots himself then get's back in and finishes the obstacle... All the while he's out for like 30sec-1min the truck moves all of about 6inches!!!!!!!! Now that is control.
BUT, like I maintain...For most "Expo" type use I'd guess that mayb e a 3.0 or so like someone said would be awesome. Either that or again, Duals with a 2.28/4.7 Combo ( I would NEVER run 4.7/4.7's... just too little wheel speed posibility for my type of trails/terrain)... Remember, if your Diffs are geared to match your tires then your 4HI will more then likely do just fine for most "slippery" situations, and then you have stock Low range for everything else.
I just thought of something else too... Why not a Klune-V underdrive??? that way, when 4LO is just not low enough, hit the underdrive, then once clear, it's back to 4LO. Same basic principal as a doubler but it could possibly make for a shorter Tranny/T-case combo (not sure about this). by the same token you could run a 4.7 Case and a Saturn over-drive and when 4.7's too low, hit the OD and SHAZAM!!!!!! Either way when it comes down to it, I'm a guy adn the more levers and buttons my truck has for me to play with the better eh
Again, clearly I'm rambling but hey, this p[lace is great for stuff like that...you know people tolerating my rambles
Cheers
Dave
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
They sure did not on Cadillac Hill. For a reasonable speed over the trail it was screaming the engine, and 3rd was lugging it.
3.0-3.5 to 1 would be what I would buy for my use.
djrez4
Adventurer
I'm planning on duals - 2.28 front and 4.7 rear - with a triple-stick. That'll give me the 20 forward options and 4 reverse options I want, along with the ability to do 2-low and 2-low-low, and all without making a giant mess of the center console. I also figured I'd do the 10-degree-rotated adapter, just to get it out of the way.
I only have one truck (ok - I have three, but only one runs) and I'd like it to be able to get me anywhere.
I only have one truck (ok - I have three, but only one runs) and I'd like it to be able to get me anywhere.
dieselcruiserhead
16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
Marlin carries a rare 4.0 low also. I am in the same debate myself. I feel 2.28 even with the turbo first gear is too low but 4 and 4.7 are too low and I don't want to deal with duals either. 3 or 3.25 or something like that would be just awesome..