Eco-Roamer - F650 based Expedition Vehicle
- Thread starter jayshapiro
- Start date
jayshapiro
Adventurer
Linear expansion
Mark,
The plan is currently to use aluminum square tube for the camper frame, which should hopefully expand at the same rate as the aluminum sheathing on the Alucobond. By sticking to a single material throughout we're hoping to eliminate some of the expansion challenges.
As for the fastening, the current plan is to use Araldite 420, which is a 2 part aerospace adhesive by Huntsman. Supposedly it is massively strong, and designed for sticking aluminum skins to aluminum skeletons. (think planes)
The spec's show full strength at up to 70'C.
If once we get it all together we feel that it's still not strong enough, then we may take a page out of the airstream manufacturing model and use rivets on top of the epoxy.
I have found anyone that has used the Alucobond previously for a vehicle, so it's all a bit of an unknown. The theory looks good though...
Jay.
Jeep said:
Mark,
The plan is currently to use aluminum square tube for the camper frame, which should hopefully expand at the same rate as the aluminum sheathing on the Alucobond. By sticking to a single material throughout we're hoping to eliminate some of the expansion challenges.
As for the fastening, the current plan is to use Araldite 420, which is a 2 part aerospace adhesive by Huntsman. Supposedly it is massively strong, and designed for sticking aluminum skins to aluminum skeletons. (think planes)
The spec's show full strength at up to 70'C.
If once we get it all together we feel that it's still not strong enough, then we may take a page out of the airstream manufacturing model and use rivets on top of the epoxy.
I have found anyone that has used the Alucobond previously for a vehicle, so it's all a bit of an unknown. The theory looks good though...
Jay.
Metal expansion is a function of Delta T (temperature change), material thickness, and material area. Your tube will not expand at the same rate as the sheathing, but frankly with the size of the box you're building, I don't think you'll have enough expansion to really warrant any concern.
Spence
Spence
Robthebrit
Explorer
Jay,
My camper box has no 'frame', its just fiber/foam panels but it is held together by Araldite (fiberglass version). Its dones hundreds of thousands and miles an there are no signs of the glue coming apart.
Rob
My camper box has no 'frame', its just fiber/foam panels but it is held together by Araldite (fiberglass version). Its dones hundreds of thousands and miles an there are no signs of the glue coming apart.
Rob
Metal expansion is a function of Delta T (temperature change), material thickness, and material area. Your tube will not expand at the same rate as the sheathing, but frankly with the size of the box you're building, I don't think you'll have enough expansion to really warrant any concern.
I have had aluminum body panels that were 18"x55" fastened to tube frames and they warped like crazy when the sun hit them, had the same issues with HDPE and UHMW plastics, polycarbonate plastic solved the problem in this specific case. Aluminum sided van bodies don't exhibit this problem as bad but the side supports are very thin and move quite easily too. I have bonded aluminum panels using Sikaflex and the distortion is reduced partially due to some of the elastomeric qualities of the bonding agent. I had a black 24' enclosed car trailer, the siding warped so bad when the sun hit it that I couldn't stand it, I sold it and bought a white one, still warps but not as bad and much less noticeable. I know it's cosmetic but still worthy of consideration.
I have had aluminum body panels that were 18"x55" fastened to tube frames and they warped like crazy when the sun hit them, had the same issues with HDPE and UHMW plastics, polycarbonate plastic solved the problem in this specific case. Aluminum sided van bodies don't exhibit this problem as bad but the side supports are very thin and move quite easily too. I have bonded aluminum panels using Sikaflex and the distortion is reduced partially due to some of the elastomeric qualities of the bonding agent. I had a black 24' enclosed car trailer, the siding warped so bad when the sun hit it that I couldn't stand it, I sold it and bought a white one, still warps but not as bad and much less noticeable. I know it's cosmetic but still worthy of consideration.
alaskantinbender
Adventurer
Aircraft with aluminum skins will exibit the same expansion and distortion.
They will pop and oil can in the hot sun.
Regards,
Jim
jayshapiro
Adventurer
Streeeeeeeeetched
Hi All,
So for the long delay between posts, it's been a busy couple of months.
Lots of interesting progress on the truck though...
Tulsa finished with the chassis & 4x4 conversion, they did an amazing job. I cannot recommend those guys highly enough.
Then we drove the truck up to Indiana for some final measurements for the camper shell design. We had been working off of guestimates before, but now that the chassis frame rails are actually where they are meant to be, we were able to lock down the interface points with the camper, and starting to figure out how everythin is going to fit. (or not fit in some cases!)
...Then we drove it up to Northern Michigan to the guys at Alton Truck.
Larry, Nick and their crew are:
-stretching out the cab to make more room for the growing family
-adding the air-ride system for the cab
-cutting the pass-through for the camper
-installing some cool custom tanks (more on that below)
Here are some initial pics of their work:
First: Take one F-650 and make it a convertible. OUCH!
Next: Stretch it all out by 22" and fill the seams with lead to stiffen it all up.
Then: Add doors, and you're almost done!
Just like the cooking shows on TV!
Pretty cool, eh?
With the additional length in the cab, there is now about 36" between the back of the fuel tanks (75gal on each side) and the rear wall of the cab. Rather than adding more fuel (I reckon 150gal is plenty) we've decided to make some custom tanks behind the fuel cans to hold:
- Passenger side: Fresh Water in a stainless steel tank powder coated
- Driver side: Next Gen 5.5kw generator, plumbed directly to the fuel tank
This should help to free up some room under the camper for 'stuff', and move some of the vibration further away from the living area.
Stay tuned for more developments on the cab & the "final" designs on the camper...
Cheers,
Jay.
Hi All,
So for the long delay between posts, it's been a busy couple of months.
Lots of interesting progress on the truck though...
Tulsa finished with the chassis & 4x4 conversion, they did an amazing job. I cannot recommend those guys highly enough.
Then we drove the truck up to Indiana for some final measurements for the camper shell design. We had been working off of guestimates before, but now that the chassis frame rails are actually where they are meant to be, we were able to lock down the interface points with the camper, and starting to figure out how everythin is going to fit. (or not fit in some cases!)
...Then we drove it up to Northern Michigan to the guys at Alton Truck.
Larry, Nick and their crew are:
-stretching out the cab to make more room for the growing family
-adding the air-ride system for the cab
-cutting the pass-through for the camper
-installing some cool custom tanks (more on that below)
Here are some initial pics of their work:
First: Take one F-650 and make it a convertible. OUCH!
Next: Stretch it all out by 22" and fill the seams with lead to stiffen it all up.
Then: Add doors, and you're almost done!
Just like the cooking shows on TV!
Pretty cool, eh?
With the additional length in the cab, there is now about 36" between the back of the fuel tanks (75gal on each side) and the rear wall of the cab. Rather than adding more fuel (I reckon 150gal is plenty) we've decided to make some custom tanks behind the fuel cans to hold:
- Passenger side: Fresh Water in a stainless steel tank powder coated
- Driver side: Next Gen 5.5kw generator, plumbed directly to the fuel tank
This should help to free up some room under the camper for 'stuff', and move some of the vibration further away from the living area.
Stay tuned for more developments on the cab & the "final" designs on the camper...
Cheers,
Jay.
stevenmd
Expedition Leader
Very nice, very cool. I ask only one thing of thee... I live about an hour east of you (SF) in Ripon... when it is finished please, please let me see it in person!:Astrologist: And no, I'm not some stalker! I want to bring my wife so she can see the look in my eyes when I see your finished project.:costumed-smiley-007
jayshapiro
Adventurer
Pass-through Advice?
Hi Giuys,
Looking for some advice from others who have designed / lived-with a passthrough from the cab to the camper.
We're currently deciding on how big the 'hole' should be, and I'm starting to worry about thermal / noise leakage. There will be about a 5" gap between the cab and the camper, with a rubber bellows surrounding it. The cab has lots of sound insulation, but I'm concerned that it will be useless if the noise leaks in from the pass-through.
So, if you have a pass-through in your vehicle - How big a problem is this?
How have you solved it? I've seen a foam 'plug' for the hole, but that doesn't seem very elegant.
Also worried about security and the ability to 'close off' the camper from the cab, when shipping the vehicle, which makes me think that smaller is better than bigger on this.
I'm open to any/all suggestions.
Thanks
Jay.
Hi Giuys,
Looking for some advice from others who have designed / lived-with a passthrough from the cab to the camper.
We're currently deciding on how big the 'hole' should be, and I'm starting to worry about thermal / noise leakage. There will be about a 5" gap between the cab and the camper, with a rubber bellows surrounding it. The cab has lots of sound insulation, but I'm concerned that it will be useless if the noise leaks in from the pass-through.
So, if you have a pass-through in your vehicle - How big a problem is this?
How have you solved it? I've seen a foam 'plug' for the hole, but that doesn't seem very elegant.
Also worried about security and the ability to 'close off' the camper from the cab, when shipping the vehicle, which makes me think that smaller is better than bigger on this.
I'm open to any/all suggestions.
Thanks
Jay.
charlieaarons
Explorer
Look at Unicat's solution to the problem. The hole is about 24X27". They supply a panel made of wall material with rubber gasket. There are two pins at the bottom and two slide locks at the top, so it can only be removed from the camper side (security). Normally when travelling and camping we leave it open (leave panel at home). I would only bring it with me if shipping, or if camping in <20 F. temperatures. It's made out of the same R-13 wall material as the rest of the camper.
It's only easy to crawl into the camper from the cab with the table down; I should have specified a swingaway table but instead I got the one that accordions up and down.
When I tried the camper heating system in subzero temperatures the camper got nice and warm with the panel up, but the heat loss from the cab (single pane glass) is very noticeable with it off, even in ~32 F. temps.
The cutout is designed so that you can't access the locking pins with a hacksaw from the cab, kind of like a step looked at in profile.
Unicat also supplies a sliding panel made of horizontal metal slats that locks with sliding pins. It's more expensive than the solid panel and also probably doesn't insulate as well for cold weather.
Are you sure you want to put a water tank outside the camper (freezing risk)?
Charlie
It's only easy to crawl into the camper from the cab with the table down; I should have specified a swingaway table but instead I got the one that accordions up and down.
When I tried the camper heating system in subzero temperatures the camper got nice and warm with the panel up, but the heat loss from the cab (single pane glass) is very noticeable with it off, even in ~32 F. temps.
The cutout is designed so that you can't access the locking pins with a hacksaw from the cab, kind of like a step looked at in profile.
Unicat also supplies a sliding panel made of horizontal metal slats that locks with sliding pins. It's more expensive than the solid panel and also probably doesn't insulate as well for cold weather.
Are you sure you want to put a water tank outside the camper (freezing risk)?
Charlie
Last edited:
jayshapiro said:
Jay,
what about a sliding panel that would slide up and down from the front camper wall? Since you are designing the box from scratch, you could perhaps incorporate that in the design...not sure exactly how...just a thought
anyway, great to see that you are making progress and let me know next time you're around - I am up for another drink in Berkeley...
boblynch
Adventurer
Jay,
I agree that being able to isolate the camper from the cab is important for a number of reasons (security, sound, insulation). However, your initial idea to level out the floors in the cab and camper is also a good one. I'd do both. Make the pass thru something you can use comfortably, or it's not worth the considerable trouble and cost.
Attached are a few pics I found of other rigs using hinged doors, roller doors, and sliding doors. Good luck on whatever you choose.
Bob
View attachment 15910 View attachment 15911 View attachment 15912 View attachment 15913 View attachment 15914
I agree that being able to isolate the camper from the cab is important for a number of reasons (security, sound, insulation). However, your initial idea to level out the floors in the cab and camper is also a good one. I'd do both. Make the pass thru something you can use comfortably, or it's not worth the considerable trouble and cost.
Attached are a few pics I found of other rigs using hinged doors, roller doors, and sliding doors. Good luck on whatever you choose.
Bob
View attachment 15910 View attachment 15911 View attachment 15912 View attachment 15913 View attachment 15914