Electrical system for DIY camper build. A LOT of questions.
- Thread starter dbhost
- Start date
Okay I made some adjustments to certain orders as I doubled up on measurements and wasn't happy with certain things. So now it looks like...
#1. Camco group 27 battery box order is cancelled. NOCO Group 27 battery box is in. Thank you amazonrocks for your review pics on the 3 in 1 USB charger showing your battery box overlanding power supply.
#2. 8 amp 12v smart battery charger. Postponing this for now. I will open the box and plug my current B&D unit in until I can cough up the funds for the NOCO 10 amp onboard charger.
#3. Currently, Exide Group 27 RV / Marine deep cycle lead acid battery. Upgrade at some point down the road. It works, it's staying, for now. AGM or Lithium down the road.
#4. Deyooxi 3 in 1, 2 USB charger, 1 battery monitor, 1 12v outlet, and 1 power switch panel, marine sealed. Have in hand. Okay next to me but you get the idea...
#5. 12 ga ATO waterproof inline fuse holder, replace the non materproof inline glass fuse holder. Have this sitting next to me as well. Solder in place, protect with heat shrink which I also have in my toolbox.
#6. 3/8" ring terminals for 12 ga wire. Sitting in front of me right now. Okay these were 1/4" but I didn't want to buy extras so they got drilled out. I had this in my tool box, for the last 20 years.
#7. Bestek 500w Pure Sine inverter I have this. Not sure I want to mount it up, or just plug it in....
#8. Stainless steel wing nuts for threaded terminals on battery. From my hardware selection in the garage.
Other improvements upgrades going on....
#1. Fuel improvement for generator. Filling up with ethanol free gas in the can along with treatment with Seafoam. This goes into the 5 gallon can, and as needed 1 gallon gets mixed in the gallon can with the requried dose of 2 stroke oil. Using Briggs and Stratton branded oil as it was what Amazon would send me...
#2. Obtained starter fluid for stubborn generator. Again zero issues starting above 32 deg F. The logical part of my brain says the issue is probably the choke not, well choking enough, or too much due to the denser air at below freezing. But somewhere in the same brain I am doubting that so no clue...
#3. Trying to figure out where my wife hid my rolls of electrical tape. Yes I am building the wiring as a harness and I want it contained so as not not encourage corrosion and short circuits. The heat shrink will likely get sealed off a bit better with a smear of clear silicone to each joint. I know some may see that as a bit OCD, I see it as designing and building in quality and reliability to the system.
Now mind you, this is a stopgap solution while the camper build and truck repower is going on...
I am figuring the camper build can expand off of this, or replace if I decide I want / need to go with a multi batery system.
#1. Camco group 27 battery box order is cancelled. NOCO Group 27 battery box is in. Thank you amazonrocks for your review pics on the 3 in 1 USB charger showing your battery box overlanding power supply.
#2. 8 amp 12v smart battery charger. Postponing this for now. I will open the box and plug my current B&D unit in until I can cough up the funds for the NOCO 10 amp onboard charger.
#3. Currently, Exide Group 27 RV / Marine deep cycle lead acid battery. Upgrade at some point down the road. It works, it's staying, for now. AGM or Lithium down the road.
#4. Deyooxi 3 in 1, 2 USB charger, 1 battery monitor, 1 12v outlet, and 1 power switch panel, marine sealed. Have in hand. Okay next to me but you get the idea...
#5. 12 ga ATO waterproof inline fuse holder, replace the non materproof inline glass fuse holder. Have this sitting next to me as well. Solder in place, protect with heat shrink which I also have in my toolbox.
#6. 3/8" ring terminals for 12 ga wire. Sitting in front of me right now. Okay these were 1/4" but I didn't want to buy extras so they got drilled out. I had this in my tool box, for the last 20 years.
#7. Bestek 500w Pure Sine inverter I have this. Not sure I want to mount it up, or just plug it in....
#8. Stainless steel wing nuts for threaded terminals on battery. From my hardware selection in the garage.
Other improvements upgrades going on....
#1. Fuel improvement for generator. Filling up with ethanol free gas in the can along with treatment with Seafoam. This goes into the 5 gallon can, and as needed 1 gallon gets mixed in the gallon can with the requried dose of 2 stroke oil. Using Briggs and Stratton branded oil as it was what Amazon would send me...
#2. Obtained starter fluid for stubborn generator. Again zero issues starting above 32 deg F. The logical part of my brain says the issue is probably the choke not, well choking enough, or too much due to the denser air at below freezing. But somewhere in the same brain I am doubting that so no clue...
#3. Trying to figure out where my wife hid my rolls of electrical tape. Yes I am building the wiring as a harness and I want it contained so as not not encourage corrosion and short circuits. The heat shrink will likely get sealed off a bit better with a smear of clear silicone to each joint. I know some may see that as a bit OCD, I see it as designing and building in quality and reliability to the system.
Now mind you, this is a stopgap solution while the camper build and truck repower is going on...
I am figuring the camper build can expand off of this, or replace if I decide I want / need to go with a multi batery system.
228B
Observer
db... may I recommend you pause your activity for a day or two and then, with patience, read Bob Shearer's RV Battery Charging Puzzle. It is a lengthy read, but absolutely informative. I believe it may greatly increase your new system's potential and it's reliability.
handybobsolar.wordpress.com
Everything we do to use 12V centers around our battery, or batteries (or battery bank). One good quality battery and the knowledge to charge it properly is the foundation of everything we do off-highway/off-grid.
Here's to your success. ?
The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE
Written in 2004 and continuously updated since. Last extensively revised December, 2010. If you found this by having somebody send you to it, you may not realize it is only one part of an extensive…
handybobsolar.wordpress.com
Everything we do to use 12V centers around our battery, or batteries (or battery bank). One good quality battery and the knowledge to charge it properly is the foundation of everything we do off-highway/off-grid.
Here's to your success. ?
db... may I recommend you pause your activity for a day or two and then, with patience, read Bob Shearer's RV Battery Charging Puzzle. It is a lengthy read, but absolutely informative. I believe it may greatly increase your new system's potential and it's reliability.
The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE
Written in 2004 and continuously updated since. Last extensively revised December, 2010. If you found this by having somebody send you to it, you may not realize it is only one part of an extensive…
Everything we do to use 12V centers around our battery, or batteries (or battery bank). One good quality battery and the knowledge to charge it properly is the foundation of everything we do off-highway/off-grid.
Here's to your success. ?
Whoah. I thought my posts got long winded!
Okay so here is my status so far...
#1. Charging circuit is currently a Harbor Freight Tailgator. As mentioned above. And a B&D 25amp (not sure how but it pulls max 4 amps at 110v). Neither of which is ideal or anywhere near ideal. Or even in the same zip code. I am aware.
#2. Battery is a SuperStart 95 amp hour group 27 RV / Marine Deep Cycle lead acid battery. Decent specs, lousy warranty, cheap. It was what was available during the ice storm to get my CPAP up and running again.
#3. 2 power output panels that includes switches, 12v sockets 120w max, and dual USB charger / voltometers with max charge output of 18v each USB, and the associated harnesses. These are all marine rated with water / dust seals. The inline glass non marine fuse holder will be removed and replaced with inline ATO style marine fuse holders. The small ring terminals are being swapped out with proper I believe 5/16 ring terminals (or are they 3/8"? Doesn't matter, I have them). All butt splices / terminals are the heat shrink type.
#4. NOCO Group 27 battery box. Only battery box I could find that wasn't stupid expensive that would easily fit the outlets / switch etc...
#5. Electrical tape to make the harness.
#6. Top post to threaded post conversion clamps x2. And of course 4 proper fitted wing nuts.
The idea here is to run the power / ground leads together until they need to split out to reach the terminals, and then run power together and into a single ring terminal. Same with the ground.
The inverter has been double and triple checked. I need to mention this inverter was left with me as a gift from my brother in law who had no icea what to do with it. I thought it was a pure sine wave inverter, it iis not. I will be primarily charging a laptop with it, so I am concerned about how clean the power is. Thus I will be leaving it out for now. This means the pending improvements will be... Well pending after I read that article...
So in another thread I am talking about framing for a flatbed conversion / hard side camper design for an F150. I am considering putting the battery bank on the opposite side of the truck from the fuel tank between the front of the bed and the wheel arch. That should give me more than enough room for 4 batteries and with any luck a 2KW inverter generator if I design it right. Weight should be about right.
That leaves me with even more questions. But please double check me here....
As I understand it from the diagrams I have seen online, We would go.... Positive to positive to positive through all 4, same with negative. Mounted in the truck then we would take the last neg to chassis ground.
At that point, this is where I get funny on what is specific to RVs / campers so please bear with me. Assuming I was going pure 12V I would use a 12V fuse block with screw terminals to allow hot and ground sides with ATO / ATC style fuses. I have fat fingers and HATE ATM fuses for that reason. But I also need 110V from the generator.
I know I have seen panels that have BOTH breakers, AND ATO fuses. Are those common? How are they wired? Should I use an inverter and feed the breaker panel off of that? My power requirements won't be non existent, but they shouldn't be huge.
32" HDTV, I found models that have transformers that take the 110V AC and convert to less than 1 amp 12v DC so just modding to run on 12v DC and I am good there without inverter loss. Laptop charging which would requrie 110V, Small AC. As small as the camper is, likely do a 5K window unit with a soft starter.
4G range extender. Not sure make / model but I understand Wilson Electronics makes good ones. Travel CPAP, Most likely at some point a proper 12v compressor fridge. Leaning heavily toward the IceCo JP50, And lastly, PS4 slim, and Atari Flashback consoles. Not run at same time hopefully obviously, Keep my wife and I entertained should we get socked in with foul weather as happens periodically when camping.... And I am too old, crotchety, and cheap to replace every time a new console comes up. And these have the games we play...
The idea is the TV on a swivel mount just at the ceiling, pivot to be seen from bed, pivot to be seen from seating for use with consoles or as HDMI monitor should I want to go that way...
So if I am counting right, I have 3 110V items that I can't convert to 12v that I know of. The rest is either USB or 12V.
Yes, I do intend to make it a lot more complex in the camper. The intent is to spend more time on the road, and off the road, and I need to build the means to support that while I work and play...
That leaves me with even more questions. But please double check me here....
As I understand it from the diagrams I have seen online, We would go.... Positive to positive to positive through all 4, same with negative. Mounted in the truck then we would take the last neg to chassis ground.
At that point, this is where I get funny on what is specific to RVs / campers so please bear with me. Assuming I was going pure 12V I would use a 12V fuse block with screw terminals to allow hot and ground sides with ATO / ATC style fuses. I have fat fingers and HATE ATM fuses for that reason. But I also need 110V from the generator.
I know I have seen panels that have BOTH breakers, AND ATO fuses. Are those common? How are they wired? Should I use an inverter and feed the breaker panel off of that? My power requirements won't be non existent, but they shouldn't be huge.
32" HDTV, I found models that have transformers that take the 110V AC and convert to less than 1 amp 12v DC so just modding to run on 12v DC and I am good there without inverter loss. Laptop charging which would requrie 110V, Small AC. As small as the camper is, likely do a 5K window unit with a soft starter.
4G range extender. Not sure make / model but I understand Wilson Electronics makes good ones. Travel CPAP, Most likely at some point a proper 12v compressor fridge. Leaning heavily toward the IceCo JP50, And lastly, PS4 slim, and Atari Flashback consoles. Not run at same time hopefully obviously, Keep my wife and I entertained should we get socked in with foul weather as happens periodically when camping.... And I am too old, crotchety, and cheap to replace every time a new console comes up. And these have the games we play...
The idea is the TV on a swivel mount just at the ceiling, pivot to be seen from bed, pivot to be seen from seating for use with consoles or as HDMI monitor should I want to go that way...
So if I am counting right, I have 3 110V items that I can't convert to 12v that I know of. The rest is either USB or 12V.
Yes, I do intend to make it a lot more complex in the camper. The intent is to spend more time on the road, and off the road, and I need to build the means to support that while I work and play...
4000lbsOfGoat
Well-known member
It boggles the mind that there are not direct-DC charging options for DC appliances like laptops...I've got an inverter but I'd rather not take the loss if I can avoid it. The stupid laptops are the *only* things I can't find DC cords for, and thus, the only reason I need the inverter at all. Just seems so wasteful...
The issue for me, and the reason for the laptop is that I can work remotely, so long as I am within reasonable shot of a 4G signal and enough juice to keep the laptop and phone going, I am golden paycheck wise. However my company provided laptop that is required for network access, they are NOT going to allow BYOD, anyway the laptop is an HP desktop replacement, and I believe consumes between 250 and 300w. Not entirely sure. It has a SSD, I believe the i7 processor itself uses less than 50w, SSD next to nothing, memory, southbridge etc... all neglibible but combined, okay nowhere near my original Athlon 64 125w processor with 4 spinning disks in RAID for sure...
It sure would be nice if they set us up with 12V power adapters. And after the ice storm / outages I might be able to talk them into it. Shouldn't be super tough to do as they lost a week of work from most of us in Texas for that stupid thing, and we could have kept working if we would have had 12v power connection available. Same is true post hurricanes...
It sure would be nice if they set us up with 12V power adapters. And after the ice storm / outages I might be able to talk them into it. Shouldn't be super tough to do as they lost a week of work from most of us in Texas for that stupid thing, and we could have kept working if we would have had 12v power connection available. Same is true post hurricanes...
4000lbsOfGoat
Well-known member
Dell does not seem to make them anymore - at least I haven't been able to find one for a one year old XPS...
RedRaider1
Member
Look into a RedArc 1225 or 1240 BCDC Charger. They will charge your batteries and either 25 or 40 amps (depending on which model you go with) from your tow vehicle and can work as your solar charger in the future when you go that direction. Other components I'd recommend are a Victron bmv 712 battery monitor and Victron blue smart 15 amp shore power charger. These components will give you all the charging and monitoring/management options you need.
This is how I set up my system and I really like it, its nice to be able to monitor what's going on with my system at all times from my phone.
I haven't read this whole thread so if this was already answered, I apologize.
Noted along with the previous Renogy model. Just FWIW, does it require 25 or 40a input or is that max? I do have a high output alternator, I believe 150 amp, as the truck has a winch, and had previously had some obnoxious power drawing halogen off road lights that drew WAY more power than was wise. Since replaced with LEDs... I assume one feed is supposed to be from alternator, other is supposed to be from solar?
For the time being, permanently mounted in vehicle charging isn't happening as I will be for a while doing my overlanding out of a smaller vehicle and basing out of a ground tent. But due to CPAP thereapy I am power dependent, so if there is a way to set that up and feed the battery between destinations while battery is in a marine box we are golden...
My long term goal I might not have mentioned is to have 3 sources of power generation to recharge the battery. Solar, Alternator, and 110v 60hz be it generator or shore power.
For now the project goes on with what I have, and we will bypass what I don't until funds come up...
The 3 in 1 panel with the USB dual charger, with voltometer not visible since no power applied, 12V marine socket, and sealed switch. The ATO marine fuse holders have been grafted inline, all connectors I used were of the heat shrink variety and have been, heat shrunk. Good tight electrical tape looming done. 15 amp fuses on both sides.
I am undecided on what to do with the second side. I want at least one more 12v outlet, and I want it switched with a similar style switch, but I DO NOT want the additional USB ports nor do I need a second voltometer to draw from the battery.
In order to achieve what I am going for, I think I will need to get a second 3 in 1 setup, and modify the harness to eliminate the USB charger / voltometer. That will likely require spending some quality time with a Dremel as well to modify the mount plate. But at least I can get what I want.
Oh, and the mount plate. The idea here since they come with basically tiny overglorified wood screws is to set up a piece of backer behind the lid of the marine battery box to give the panel screws something to bite into, and I will likely use a thin bead of RTV to help bond the panels to the box.
So things I am lacking at this point for my build.
#1. Second 12V outlet and switch.
#2. Battery box, but I have a tracking number.
#3. Proper inverter. I do not need a high dollar piece of gear, but I need to be able to isolate my expensive laptop from the dirty power my cheap generator produces and the circuitry here is not sophisticated enough to allow the battery to isolate the laptop from the generator. And my modified sine wave inverter is not appropriate for computers etc...
#4. Long term solution for charging circuit. At this time I have a solution, but it is UGLY, and that is a Black and Decker 25 amp car battery charger powered by the Tailgator Generator. I am WELL below the generators max draw limits with this charger, but the charger has normal battery post clamps. Inelegant solution at best. But this is a matter of pretty versus a matter of function, so not highest priority.
While I am in the tent / battery box mode, how can I provide a more elegant 110v AC - 12v DC charging solution that would also be "future proof" allowing me the ability to expand up to a 4 battery bank?
And more importantly, an affordable, reliable pure sine wave inverter that I won't immediately overwhelm with the migration to the truck camper build.
The idea if it isn't obvious is to be able to migrate components to the truck camper as the build goes on, but be out and camping until then...
REDARC Tech Team
New member
It does require 25A, or 40A depending on the product itself. It doesn't necessarily means that it will use it. If the alternator does not have the amperage available it will borrow from the start battery until the Voltage cut off of 12.7V. The Manager30 Charger will facilitate all of those needs of DC-DC charging, MPPT Solar Regulator, and 110V mains charger as well.
Check out this video for some real world applications.
Quick update on my progress. The harness for the output side is complete. Nicely wrapped and tested. Both 12V ports, all 4 USB ports, and since they come with the USB ports, both voltometers work.
So for the time being, it will be...
#1. Cheap A-- generator.
#2. B&D 25 amp auto battery charger. This will be changed soon. Looking at an affordable 10 - 15 amp, small unit that I can use ring terminal connected.
#3. Group 27 Deep Cycle battery with Group 27 box. Modded to hold the output.
#4. Custom harness with 2 switches, 2 12V outlets, and 2 dual USB charging ports with voltometers.
As states the main function is to run the CPAP, however that isn't my sole need for 12V.
Phased upgrade approach.
Looking into DC / DC charger. May further upgrade alternator if needed. 40 amps is an awful lot though.
Upgrade generator to at least 2KW inverter generator. This will be a trade off between power, fuel consumption, size, weight, cost etc... I don't want a big ol honkin generator, nor do I want too small of one. The Predator 3500 is on the large side for my desires, but can do emergency service @ home. It's just a bit big and heavy for the half ton truck camper buildout... Not to mention fuel usage.
Battery is a concern further down the road. I am trying to figure out a light weight, affordable, reliable way to store say 350 / 400 amp / hours of electricity. Most likely lithium deep cycle batteries. We will see...
And after we have the storage, then I can look into inverters.
Fedex is running late, like they ALWAYS do, getting my box to me. Every single fedex shippment I have had for the last 4 years or so has been delayed at least one day, and usually shows up late in the day...
So for the time being, it will be...
#1. Cheap A-- generator.
#2. B&D 25 amp auto battery charger. This will be changed soon. Looking at an affordable 10 - 15 amp, small unit that I can use ring terminal connected.
#3. Group 27 Deep Cycle battery with Group 27 box. Modded to hold the output.
#4. Custom harness with 2 switches, 2 12V outlets, and 2 dual USB charging ports with voltometers.
As states the main function is to run the CPAP, however that isn't my sole need for 12V.
Phased upgrade approach.
Looking into DC / DC charger. May further upgrade alternator if needed. 40 amps is an awful lot though.
Upgrade generator to at least 2KW inverter generator. This will be a trade off between power, fuel consumption, size, weight, cost etc... I don't want a big ol honkin generator, nor do I want too small of one. The Predator 3500 is on the large side for my desires, but can do emergency service @ home. It's just a bit big and heavy for the half ton truck camper buildout... Not to mention fuel usage.
Battery is a concern further down the road. I am trying to figure out a light weight, affordable, reliable way to store say 350 / 400 amp / hours of electricity. Most likely lithium deep cycle batteries. We will see...
And after we have the storage, then I can look into inverters.
Fedex is running late, like they ALWAYS do, getting my box to me. Every single fedex shippment I have had for the last 4 years or so has been delayed at least one day, and usually shows up late in the day...
The power system / box is done. For now that is. I do want to elaborate the art as it were but that will be down the road.
The power box is done. Sadly not all of the holes went exactly where I wanted, but it works, and doesn't look "too" bad...
So the remainder of the build went pretty much as I expected, but then again not.
The flat sections of the box were not quite wide enough for the 3 in 1 panels to fit, but the pieces fit nicely on the box itself after drilling so there we go.
Not all of the holes are spaced as I intended, apparently the center hole on the left got marked a bit to the left and I didn't notice. Oops. Still fits and works so I am not going to complain.
The remainder of the harness went together in literally 2 minutes. Just a quick measure up, cut, cut, crimp crimp, heat shrink here, heat shrink there and lots of wraps of electrical tape to keep it all organized and tidy.
The power box in "charging mode". I really need a better charging solution.
I am still unhappy with the charging side of the equation, but not too unhappy I guess.
I've got way more invested in this rig than I ought, but then again, it bought me supplies for a bunch of other projects so I really can't call them costs for this project exactly. If I factor in the pieces I already had, and the cost for the items I actually used from the new purchases, I have this put together for about half the cost of a Rockpals 350, and while it lacks the polish of the rockpals, it does what I need at a price I can absorb, and gives me the ability to expand into the future. Sort of future proofing myself here...
The DC to DC charger that will allow me to charge from alternator, and act as a solar charge controller is awesome. Not sure which one to go with but definately a great idea.
And lastly the inverter is going to have to wait until I go with the 4 battery system, which the Rockpals would never be able to expand to...
While the unit isn't 100% ideal, it will work for the foreseeable future. I have the feeling the charging circuit (Bench top charger) is going to get on my nerves REALLY quickly though.
The power box is done. Sadly not all of the holes went exactly where I wanted, but it works, and doesn't look "too" bad...
So the remainder of the build went pretty much as I expected, but then again not.
The flat sections of the box were not quite wide enough for the 3 in 1 panels to fit, but the pieces fit nicely on the box itself after drilling so there we go.
Not all of the holes are spaced as I intended, apparently the center hole on the left got marked a bit to the left and I didn't notice. Oops. Still fits and works so I am not going to complain.
The remainder of the harness went together in literally 2 minutes. Just a quick measure up, cut, cut, crimp crimp, heat shrink here, heat shrink there and lots of wraps of electrical tape to keep it all organized and tidy.
The power box in "charging mode". I really need a better charging solution.
I am still unhappy with the charging side of the equation, but not too unhappy I guess.
I've got way more invested in this rig than I ought, but then again, it bought me supplies for a bunch of other projects so I really can't call them costs for this project exactly. If I factor in the pieces I already had, and the cost for the items I actually used from the new purchases, I have this put together for about half the cost of a Rockpals 350, and while it lacks the polish of the rockpals, it does what I need at a price I can absorb, and gives me the ability to expand into the future. Sort of future proofing myself here...
The DC to DC charger that will allow me to charge from alternator, and act as a solar charge controller is awesome. Not sure which one to go with but definately a great idea.
And lastly the inverter is going to have to wait until I go with the 4 battery system, which the Rockpals would never be able to expand to...
While the unit isn't 100% ideal, it will work for the foreseeable future. I have the feeling the charging circuit (Bench top charger) is going to get on my nerves REALLY quickly though.
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