Engine Knocking - Overheating, Help! This is my SECOND 2F in less than a year!

[jmdjax]

Ok. I bought my FJ40 in New Mexico. It's my daily driver. I drove it back to Florida and it happily served me nearly a year until the 2F engine just crapped out. It had a severe loud knock that we reasoned to be a spun rod bearing, or broken rod, or something. I found an inexpensive 2F from a guy and we put it in and it ran great for a few months. Now:

I hadn't driven the vehicle in about a week, as I was on vacation from work, but last night I take her to the gas station to fill her up for this week. I noticed a knocking noise, relative to RPMs around 2000 RPM. I checked the oil, it was slightly low but no big deal, I added an extra quart. I was really nervous about today given my past experience with this truck. I started her up, and started moving. To my surprise, no noise! No knocking, nothing. Happy, I cranked up the radio and headed to work. Shortly after I notice the knocking again. This time cruising on the highway at around 2,500RPM and close to 3k. But it was LOUD. I noticed I lost a little power on the throttle. I backed off a bit, and noticed the thermostat start to rise. And rise.. And rise.. I was one exit away from work so I stuck it out but I played with speed and RPM, knocking at EVERY RPM now. Extremely loud. Pulled off the highway and even in idle it's just BANGING inside that engine. The banging is relative to the RPM, so I am assuming it's inside the engine.

This is the identical scenario I had before. So, without any money to buy another one. I started reading the forums about what to check for. Possibly a bad oil pump? I don't know.

Even if that is the case, is the engine shot? I guess it will have to be torn down which means I am out ANOTHER 2F engine. And out of a truck.

What gives?! Why can't I keep a 2F on the road? I never drive above 60mph. I always baby it.

I've got a feeling this is the death of my 40..

 

[4x4x4doors]

Based on the info you provide and general mechanical knowledge more than intimate knowledge of that particular engine, I would be prepared to replace (not likely just rebuild) an engine.
Your only hope of saving it would have been an immediate shutdown at the first knock. (Not intended as an indictment of your choices).
I would look to oil pump failure as a likely culprit. If you're goinig to go with another used engine, it's probably a worthwhile investment to replace the oil pump with a new one before (while everything is more accessible) you put it in.

 

[1911]

Bad luck for sure; sorry to hear about it. Impossible to diagnose noise descriptions at a distance, but it doesn't sound good; blown con rod would make that noise. My own experience with 2F and 3F engines has been very good; when properly set-up and maintained they are usually good for many hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

[Patman]

Did you tear down your first engine to identify the failure? What did you use from the original when swapping in the replacement?

The 2F is historically HARD to kill. I've seen them overheated to the point of not running, run dry of oil, revved WAAAAAY over the 4k max and still go on to live.

How do the fluids look? Have you tried pulling the belts and seeing if the noise changes? Does the balancer look ok?

Did either or both engines shake like crazy with the noise? Tearing up the bottom end on a 2F takes talent, don't write it off yet.

 

[BIGdaddy]

I have to agree with the above statements.

I'm a Jeep guy who's got a love affair with the 4.0L tractor motor in my Cherokee, but I have nothin' but love for the 22R(e) and 2F motors.

2f motors, IMO, are VERY, VERY robust motors with 200-300k mike lifespans not being uncommon.

Maybe head right to the top and give someone like Spectre off-road or TLC a call, and see if they can help you with some "Tactics" or a "gameplan" over the phone, seeing how tight your budget sounds. (nothin' wrong with that! I run a 1992 jeep to keep our budget balanced! It's not like your MASARATI broke or something. An fj40 is a great car for budget minded adventurers. Tough rigs!)

Could a funky transmission be causing the engine failures? Somewhere between the back of the motor and within the bellhousing? Honestly, I can't think of anything that would cause overheating AND bottom-end bits to fail.

Seems like anything's possible since you didn't diagnose your last motor's issue.

Good luck, and don't lose hope!

 

[jmdjax]

Ok, well when I get it back home I'm going to drain it, take off the oil pan and see what I can find.

If I am assuming correctly, I can get in the bottom end in this without removing the engine right?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Correct, you can drop the pan. Any external oil loss? Perhaps a head oil galley plug loss?

 

[jmdjax]

Here are videos you can clearly hear the knocking.






I didn't have a stethescope but I took a stick and shoved it up against the engine and put my ear to it, the sound seems to be the strongest coming from the bottom end of the block at the rear of the engine.

I guess I can just drop the oil pan and start looking around? This will be my first time tearing into an engine..

 

[DaveInDenver]

Did you reuse any engine parts? I assume the transmission, clutch, etc. was not changed. What's the oil flow like under the valve cover?

Are you by chance missing a 10mm socket?

 

[jmdjax]

Did you reuse any engine parts? I assume the transmission, clutch, etc. was not changed. What's the oil flow like under the valve cover?

Are you by chance missing a 10mm socket?

I have a 10mm socket. I reused the tranny, clutch, dizzy, carb, and alternator. I am not sure how to check oil flow under the valve cover. Can I take it off and run the engine?
Sorry if I sound like such a newb at this... We all start somewhere :sombrero:

 

[DaveInDenver]

I have a 10mm socket. I reused the tranny, clutch, dizzy, carb, and alternator. I am not sure how to check oil flow under the valve cover. Can I take it off and run the engine?
Sorry if I sound like such a newb at this... We all start somewhere :sombrero:

I was just thinking out loud to take off the 710 (I'll buy you a beer if you get this) cap and checking that there's oil splashing around the top end. Or popping off the valve cover and inspecting that everything is coated with fresh oil. Basically check that you don't have a clogged oil passage or failing oil pump.

But with the 2F you can actually run at idle with the valve cover off, the oil flow is more of an ooze on them. This is something that you shouldn't do except on a F/2F, GM 235, International Harvester tractors, etc. Most engines would coat you and everything within 10 feet with oil if you tried that.

I was wondering if the knocking was the throw-out or pilot bearing or maybe a bad bearing inside the tranny, which is why I asked about it. Wondering about a broken distributor, I bet that would make a lot of noise. Of course the engine wouldn't run if it was sheared.

 

[Pskhaat]

710 (I'll buy you a beer if you get this) cap

:beer:

 

[jmdjax]

I was just thinking out loud to take off the 710 (I'll buy you a beer if you get this) cap and checking that there's oil splashing around the top end. Or popping off the valve cover and inspecting that everything is coated with fresh oil. Basically check that you don't have a clogged oil passage or failing oil pump.

But with the 2F you can actually run at idle with the valve cover off, the oil flow is more of an ooze on them. This is something that you shouldn't do except on a F/2F, GM 235, International Harvester tractors, etc. Most engines would coat you and everything within 10 feet with oil if you tried that.

I was wondering if the knocking was the throw-out or pilot bearing or maybe a bad bearing inside the tranny, which is why I asked about it. Wondering about a broken distributor, I bet that would make a lot of noise. Of course the engine wouldn't run if it was sheared.

I have an extra distributor, so I can check that pretty easily. Thanks! Looks like a long weekend ahead of me.

 

[Patman]

Hard to tell from the video, but is the knocking louder on engine deceleration? If you push the clutch in and rev it, does it make the same sound? When you're driving, in gear and let it coast in gear, same noise?

The video may accentuate it, but it sure sounds like a mechanical knock (I.E) something hitting something else. A rod would only sound like that if the a bearing half fell out.

I recently blew up the balancer on my one of my 2f's and the sound was very close. Outer ring of the balancer was smacking the timing cover causing the noise. However it was easy to tell as the whole thing shook worse then a poorly tuned Harley at idle.

What was this history on the replacement engine?

 

[jmdjax]

The video doesn't accentuate it. Its pretty bad! I'll check the clutch and see if that has an effect.