EV acceptance is peaking

[3laine]

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It's an interesting thought experiment, and people who do long-distance towing (and probably overlanding) and such would absolutely love switching to gas/diesel.

BUT, some of these claims are... questionable.

Half the weight: The base Lightning is only 10% heavier than the most similar gas truck as far as power/features (Powerboost) - 5500lb vs 6000lb. Comparing apples-to-apples trucks, none are half the weight.

Half the price: The base 2024 Lightning (Supercrew 4x4) is $55k, and has a $7500 tax credit available, resulting in an effective $47,500 price. The absolute cheapest, zero option, weakest engine 2024 F-150 Supercrew 4x4 is $47k.

So, half the weight and half the price make for a funnier meme, but not really accurate in most cases.

 

[3laine]

and somehow set off the EVangelists.

A few years ago, I sold my EVs and bought a couple manual-transmission, gas powered hot-hatches.

I don't think everyone should drive EVs, nor that they're good for all use cases, nor that they give the same experience as enthusiast gas vehicles.

My "EVangelist" cred is pretty weak.

I just know enough about EVs and EV charging to know what actually caused the issues in Chicago was a combination of cold weather AND insufficient infrastructure.

 

[jaxyaks]

A few years ago, I sold my EVs and bought a couple manual-transmission, gas powered hot-hatches.

I don't think everyone should drive EVs, nor that they're good for all use cases, nor that they give the same experience as enthusiast gas vehicles.

My "EVangelist" cred is pretty weak.

I just know enough about EVs and EV charging to know what actually caused the issues in Chicago was a combination of cold weather AND insufficient infrastructure.

I wasn't really pointing at anybody specific I reckon it was a shoe fit thing or whatever that saying is..... I just assumed you had more cred when I took a look at some previous postings in the other EV threads. ....you gotta build up that cred man!!!

 

[NevadaLover]

Cool story, but multiple people who were there disagree with you.




Wrong. I showed evidence days ago that there were often too few chargers at the affected locations even in better weather, and even very late at night, in the form of charging site reviews from owners who used them.



Extreme cold makes the situation worse. Slower charging, less range, etc. If there are actually plenty of chargers, then EV owners can normally deal with the effects of cold without major issues, as evidenced by the vast, vast, vast majority of EVs that didn't get stranded despite similar weather across much of the northern US.

But combine extreme cold with insufficient infrastructure, and you get what happened in Chicago (but not many other places in similar magnitude).

So, yes, extreme cold is a major component, and so is insufficient infrastructure.

Strandings and dead batteries are rare even if one of the two are present, but put them both together, and you get Chicago.

So your claim that there were "plenty of EV chargers" isn't true. And it was a major contributor to the issue, as I claimed from the beginning. It's the main difference between Chicago and the many other areas where EVs did fine in similar weather.

Yet there were no reports of mass abandoned vehicles in multiple charging stations in warmer weather, a few stations with bad reviews doesn't mean there aren't enough chargers in that whole area, they may have been the busiest charging stations around and got bad reviews for that fact alone!

Yet the proof is still for those who are not obtuse, when the temp dropped the batteries would not take a charge, yet once warmer weather hit they did charge, that alone is proof that it was the cold that caused this incident, not a lack of chargers, I can't believe you are truly this stubborn!!

Warm weather equals no mass abandonment of EV's even when plugged in, again, even when plugged in, but it did in the cold weather, thus if the batteries were warm they were able to take a charge they drive away with happy drivers, but when frozen they clogged the chargers simply because they were frozen, frozen batteries caused the snafu, not a lack of chargers.

 

[3laine]

Warm weather equals no mass abandonment of EV's even when plugged in

And sufficient charging stations equals no mass abandonment of EVs, too.

So, again, EXACTLY like I just said, it’s the combination of extreme cold AND bad infrastructure.

Extreme cold didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. Bad infrastructure didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. The combination of the two is the perfect storm.

There aren’t “plenty of chargers”.

frozen batteries caused the snafu, not a lack of chargers.

The guy in the article whose car ran out of power while searching for a working, available charger disagrees with you, but what does he know?

 

[3laine]

I wasn't really pointing at anybody specific I reckon it was a shoe fit thing or whatever that saying is..... I just assumed you had more cred when I took a look at some previous postings in the other EV threads. ....you gotta build up that cred man!!!

I mean, I was the one who responded to your original post on the topic, so it was obviously me.

But yeah, I post mostly about EVs here because there are tons of people here who know way more about off-roading and overlanding than me, so on those topics, I mostly defer to those more knowledgeable than me. I know more than most about EVs, though, so I have more to contribute on that topic.

But yeah, I’ll probably never be totally accepted by the militant EV people who say they’ll NEVER own a gas car again or whatever. EVs are great for a lot of use cases, and I’ve owned 5 and driven 10+ trips of 1,000+ miles, but I’ll always love, light, manual cars, too.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

I mean, I was the one who responded to your original post on the topic, so it was obviously me.

But yeah, I post mostly about EVs here because there are tons of people here who know way more about off-roading and overlanding than me, so on those topics, I mostly defer to those more knowledgeable than me. I know more than most about EVs, though, so I have more to contribute on that topic.

But yeah, I’ll probably never be totally accepted by the militant EV people who say they’ll NEVER own a gas car again or whatever. EVs are great for a lot of use cases, and I’ve owned 5 and driven 10+ trips of 1,000+ miles, but I’ll always love, light, manual cars, too.

There is the right tool for every job. Just because there isn’t currently an EV for every use case doesn’t mean the technology is flawed, it just means manufacturers have other priorities.

We’d be in a completely different situation if Ioccoca hadn’t have “invented” the modern SUV by leveraging EPA rules. If cars were just smaller, there would be less of drastic need for electrification. SUVs fit the profit incentives for manufacturers better than EVs or even hybrid tech invented 100+ years ago by Porsche. There is no reason every vehicle isn’t available as a hybrid from a technology standpoint. Just that a few industries don’t want it.

There is all kinds of other shenanigans that have hampered the development of hybrids and EV such as patent encumbrances

Patent encumbrance of large automotive NiMH batteries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Auto manufacturers knew about climate change just as Exxon did years ago, long before James Hanson testified before Congress in 1988

Exxon Knew about Climate Change Almost 40 Years Ago

A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation

www.scientificamerican.com

Just an old man rambling, my point is. We have been lied too, still are being lied too. Confounds me that people still volunteer to spread the manufactured doubt.

 

[NevadaLover]

And sufficient charging stations equals no mass abandonment of EVs, too.

So, again, EXACTLY like I just said, it’s the combination of extreme cold AND bad infrastructure.

Extreme cold didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. Bad infrastructure didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. The combination of the two is the perfect storm.

There aren’t “plenty of chargers”.




The guy in the article whose car ran out of power while searching for a working, available charger disagrees with you, but what does he know?

Yet you have no answer for the abandoned vehicles sitting in the charging stalls while plugged in and still not able to charge!

Still refusing to acknowledge the fact that before and after the cold snap there were no lots full of abandoned EV's in them anywhere on the web!

You're just trying to be a troll now aren't you? Keep going, you're well on the way!

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Yet you have no answer for the abandoned vehicles sitting in the charging stalls while plugged in and still not able to charge!

Still refusing to acknowledge the fact that before and after the cold snap there were no lots full of abandoned EV's in them anywhere on the web!

You're just trying to be a troll now aren't you? Keep going, you're well on the way!

Pot, meet kettle.

Yes, the internet, the bastion of truth nuance and reason.

 

[NevadaLover]

Pot, meet kettle.

Yes, the internet, the bastion of truth nuance and reason.

Wow, once again you prove yourself to be a liar, you stated I was on ignore, yet here you are replying to me.

Like numerous users here, I am not against EV's, they are useful for some people, but the current crop are nothing like a vehicle that meets my needs, so I will wait until one does before I buy one, based on current trends and technology that may be a decade or more away.

And once more, criticism is not hatred, you are the hater on this forum, acting like everyone who isn't rushing to buy an EV or saying anything negative about current EV technology has no place posting in this sub-forum, well that isn't how forums work but you just keep hating and crying old timer, it's too late to change for you evidently and everyone here is used to it by now!

 

[calicamper]

It's an interesting thought experiment, and people who do long-distance towing (and probably overlanding) and such would absolutely love switching to gas/diesel.

BUT, some of these claims are... questionable.

Half the weight: The base Lightning is only 10% heavier than the most similar gas truck as far as power/features (Powerboost) - 5500lb vs 6000lb. Comparing apples-to-apples trucks, none are half the weight.

Half the price: The base 2024 Lightning (Supercrew 4x4) is $55k, and has a $7500 tax credit available, resulting in an effective $47,500 price. The absolute cheapest, zero option, weakest engine 2024 F-150 Supercrew 4x4 is $47k.

So, half the weight and half the price make for a funnier meme, but not really accurate in most cases.

Interestingly the new and badly needed updated Tacoma lost 1/2 its range towing a 3000lb trailer. Thats kinda in the same ball park as the EVs in range loss.

If you need a long range capable vehicle you buy a vehicle with that capability. You don’t buy a Tacoma or a EV😆

 

[3laine]

Yet you have no answer for the abandoned vehicles sitting in the charging stalls while plugged in and still not able to charge!

As I've already said, SOME EVs end up abandoned due to cold. SOME EVs end up abandoned due to bad infrastructure.

But to have this magnitude of problems, it takes BOTH.

I've said this all along, yet you pretend I haven't.

Your argument has devolved into just constantly misrepresenting what I've said or what you've said to drag out the obvious: There weren't "plenty of chargers" and it was a combination of Cold+Infrastructure that caused the magnitude of this issue.

Still refusing to acknowledge the fact that before and after the cold snap there were no lots full of abandoned EV's in them anywhere on the web!

Wow, got me! Oh wait, I LITERALLY just said a couple posts ago: "Extreme cold didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. Bad infrastructure didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. The combination of the two is the perfect storm."

You're just trying to be a troll now aren't you? Keep going, you're well on the way!

Ah yes, the "troll" is usually the one that's way more knowledgeable about the topic and has the evidence/articles/data/first-person accounts agreeing with his position.

 

[3laine]

Interestingly the new and badly needed updated Tacoma lost 1/2 its range towing a 3000lb trailer. Thats kinda in the same ball park as the EVs in range loss.

If you need a long range capable vehicle you buy a vehicle with that capability. You don’t buy a Tacoma or a EV😆

Haven't seen the Tacoma test, but yeah, towing stuff with really bad aero crushes range of all vehicles at highway speeds. Get a truck with a massive gas tank (or preferably, diesel), if you want to tow really long distances often.

 

[NevadaLover]

As I've already said, SOME EVs end up abandoned due to cold. SOME EVs end up abandoned due to bad infrastructure.

But to have this magnitude of problems, it takes BOTH.

I've said this all along, yet you pretend I haven't.

Your argument has devolved into just constantly misrepresenting what I've said or what you've said to drag out the obvious: There weren't "plenty of chargers" and it was a combination of Cold+Infrastructure that caused the magnitude of this issue.



Wow, got me! Oh wait, I LITERALLY just said a couple posts ago: "Extreme cold didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. Bad infrastructure didn’t cause mass abandonment elsewhere. The combination of the two is the perfect storm."




Ah yes, the "troll" is usually the one that's way more knowledgeable about the topic and has the evidence/articles/data/first-person accounts agreeing with his position.

Right, as if you have any idea which or how many if any of those abandoned EV's were caused by bad infrastructure, the one underlying constant in this scenario was the cold, frozen batteries!

And again you still haven't answered the dilemma of why EV's plugged into chargers were abandoned! How can all those that were plugged in still not be charging enough to keep the driver warm and able to drive away unless the batteries were not able to take a charge, no lack of chargers in this instance yet you still can't explain that and go back to lack of chargers!

And a troll is a troll, you refusing to acknowledge the fact that EV's plugged in to chargers still stayed frozen and uncharged is typical troll behavior.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Wow, once again you prove yourself to be a liar, you stated I was on ignore, yet here you are replying to me.

Like numerous users here, I am not against EV's, they are useful for some people, but the current crop are nothing like a vehicle that meets my needs, so I will wait until one does before I buy one, based on current trends and technology that may be a decade or more away.

And once more, criticism is not hatred, you are the hater on this forum, acting like everyone who isn't rushing to buy an EV or saying anything negative about current EV technology has no place posting in this sub-forum, well that isn't how forums work but you just keep hating and crying old timer, it's too late to change for you evidently and everyone here is used to it by now!

You, you, you, my, my, my. I am rubber you are glue… the reason I block you on and off is that you rarely have anything to say worth reading.

Case in point.