plh
Explorer
I guess I'm not American because none of those statements apply to me. lol - except the one about a 100% EV is not right for me. I do own a PHEV.
EV acceptance is peaking
- Thread starter plainjaneFJC
- Start date
plh
Explorer
Wallstreet said they need to make money, so this is their next attempt at doing that with an EV.. Something like negative $40K wrapped in every eMustang and probably more in the Lightning IIRC.
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
ThundahBeagle
Well-known member
I appreciate your agenda. I do. EV's may soon rule the highways. I really dont care what powers my vehicles - gas, diesel, hydrogen fuel cell, hybrid or electric -, I just want it to do what I need it to do. And if I am going to swap over to any new type of fuel, it needs to do what I need, or to at least offer some sort of venn diagram set of benefits, where if it doesnt do X that I want, at least it adds Y and Z, IF Y and Z are important or interesting to me.
The name of this thread if about EV acceptance PEAKING. If this is PEAKING, then the EV industry is in a shambles.
There really isnt any reason why anyone shouldn't be able to comment here whether they find EV's desirable or not. You are obviously a champion of EV's. We all get that, but what, really is the problem with someone else having a different opinion? This isnt a fascist pro-EV state, where if everyone doesn't drink the koolaid they are to be disciplined and put down.
I bet people DO go over to the Jeep forum and discuss why Jeeps dont work for them. The thread is about EV acceptance peaking, and if people are here to negate that idea, why shouldn't they speak up at least as much as anyone else.
By all means. Keep championing the EV. It's not like I haven't learned a bit more about them, but live and let live, man
NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
I wouldn't say fiction, maybe a small minority but there are plenty of buyers who do their diligence and drive away from their dealer in exactly what they went there to buy, anyone who goes in willy-nilly and buys the wrong vehicle deserves all the debt and buyers remorse they received!
And I have made that last point many times here, EV's are not the right vehicle for me, yet!
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calicamper
Expedition Leader
The good news is this Quarter we did more business with Mexico than we did with China. I’d rather my neighbors benefit from trade with me vs an aggressive dictator whose country is strip mining the oceans and less capable countries to support a massive military buildup up
Todd n Natalie
OverCamper
To that note, when the Ranger came back to Canada in 2019, they were all 4X4. No 2WD available like the US.
I think Ford did the same with the XLT and up Super Duty's in '23. All 4x4 by default.
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
A lot of contractors- construction companies order the 2wd with the e-locker down here.
Lots of misinformation about Lighting demand/sales/production, partly because it's a bit complex. Partly true, partly clickbait.
Lightning set both quarterly and monthly sales records in Q4 of 2023.
Actual production isn't decreasing much. It's the production GOAL that is decreasing from 150k/yr to 75k/yr.
BUT, the original production goal was 30-40k, so it's already beating their original goal (~48k/yr rate in Q4), but they QUADRUPLED their goal, and now halved that to a new goal of 75k/yr. So, of course, the big news is that they cut the goal in half, with no mention if it still being double the original goal.
As far as production staff, the plant was retooled in Summer '23 to TRIPLE the production rate. So, it's no surprise that when you can produce triple the trucks per shift, you need fewer shifts to build a similar number of trucks.
Lightning set both quarterly and monthly sales records in Q4 of 2023.
Actual production isn't decreasing much. It's the production GOAL that is decreasing from 150k/yr to 75k/yr.
BUT, the original production goal was 30-40k, so it's already beating their original goal (~48k/yr rate in Q4), but they QUADRUPLED their goal, and now halved that to a new goal of 75k/yr. So, of course, the big news is that they cut the goal in half, with no mention if it still being double the original goal.
As far as production staff, the plant was retooled in Summer '23 to TRIPLE the production rate. So, it's no surprise that when you can produce triple the trucks per shift, you need fewer shifts to build a similar number of trucks.
The problem in Chicago absolutely was, at the very least, exacerbated by not enough chargers.
How? Teslas preheat their batteries when you're headed to a charging station, so that when you arrive, the battery is warm and can take a normal charge rate.
What happens when too many cars arrive there at once? They have to wait, the battery stops warming, cools off, and now it takes longer to get the charge speeds ramped up, causing a domino effect of delays.
The problem is also made worse when there are people who don't navigate to the charging station (like people who don't have home charging and just drive to the one they know). Their battery is not pre-heated and it causes a delay, which causes other cars to be delayed, their batteries to get colder, etc. Domino effect of not enough chargers combined with people not knowing how to use their car correctly (pre-heat battery), and the car not realizing it should still keep the battery heated when waiting in line (which also may stop if the range gets low enough to not strand the driver).
So, yes, more chargers would have absolutely greatly improved the issue.
The other evidence that this is true is that this issue wasn't widely reported in other similarly-cold areas. If it was as simple as "cold = charge slow and dead Teslas" there would have been similar incidents all over the Northern states. But when traffic is lighter to Superchargers, the batteries are often pre-heated and get in and out quickly, not causing backups that worsen the problem.
This isn't to say cold weather isn't an issue at all, but more chargers will help and more experience will help, and probably some software/hardware changes to the EVs themselves.
NevadaLover
Forking Icehole
You obviously didn't watch any of the many videos available of that event, the supercharger stations had abandoned cars sitting in the stalls and plugged in, the cold was affecting the batteries and they were not taking enough charge to keep the occupants warm much less charge the battery, this wasn't a case where cars were unable to get to a charger, they were in the stall and plugged in and not charging!!
One video showed a tesla on a flatbed that was towed to a shop, after it warmed up it charged and was on its way, pretty simple to understand!
Cars plugged in not charging, car warmed up in shop charged, cold kept batteries from charging!
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There are 3,056 public charging stations in the city of Chicago. There are 25,604 electric vehicles registered in Cook County.
Chicago is on the top ten list of cities to charge an EV in North America. You will find a Level 2 or 3 charger – also known as lightning chargers – within ten miles of any major attraction or tourist site
Chicago is on the top ten list of cities to charge an EV in North America. You will find a Level 2 or 3 charger – also known as lightning chargers – within ten miles of any major attraction or tourist site
plainjaneFJC
Deplorable
It just shows the technology isn’t ready for mass adoption yet.
Wrong. I saw the videos and literally explained in my previous post how more chargers would greatly improve the situation because I actually understand the situation, unlike many of the people reporting on it.
I *specifically* responded to your claim that there were "plenty of EV chargers" and explained why too few available chargers greatly exacerbates the issue, causing people to wait, causing those who are waiting to have their batteries cool even more, causing their charging to be even slower, causing the people waiting behind them to wait even longer, causing batteries to get so cold that they either can't charge or can't charge until the charger heats the battery enough, further delaying charging and extending wait times, etc.
So, yes, extremely cold weather can cause issues with EVs, exacerbated by lack of knowledge, lack of planning, and lack of chargers. I'm not saying cold has no effect, which is what you're trying to argue even though that's NOT my point.
There were not "plenty of chargers" in Chicago, which was my point, in response to your claim that there were "plenty of EV chargers".
Across the entire country, for the entire year, we have a few days in one city where this becomes a notable problem. It's not an issue that affects 99% of EV buyers, and it only affects those 1% of EV owners when there's an extreme cold snap.
AND the problem could be greatly improved with better infrastructure and education.
It's a minor issue in the grand scheme of things that doesn't indicate an issue for mass adoption. Maybe people in Chicago without home charging should consider this when buying an EV, but most people don't need to worry about this.