Expedition or Sequoia? (or GMC) Advice?

[calicamper]

Both are on the large side for any sort of trail use. Not to be confused with Dirt road use which both will do just fine. I have an 07 Sequoia I like it because its about as compact as you can get regarding size and still have a 8 seater that works with adults.

The negatives Toyota uses timing belts vs Ford uses a chain this lowers cost some to own the Ford. From a quality stand point I really don't see anything special about the Toyotas today and having just purchased a new Ford for my wife hands down Ford is paying more attention to the details and using decent quality materials on the interiors vs Toyota. I think it comes down to style, driving dynamics, and what you like the most. I really don't think there is an advantage one over the other regarding mechanicals.

 

[Root Moose]

To get into the nitty gritty of first gen Expedition driveline hardware, the front end is a 8.8" differential. The rear end is either an 8.8" rear end with the 4.6L V8 or a 9.75" with the 5.4L V8.

For the second generation Expedition it followed the same pattern with the 5.4L V8 getting the larger rear differential in IRS form. The 4.6 was dropped in 2005 IIRC.

If you plan to go off-highway it makes a good case for the 5.4L since you get the bigger rear differential.

For towing the Toyotas (Seq and UZJ100) are rated at ~6200 lbs. First gen Expedition 8100 lbs, second gen almost 9000 lbs.

Someone made a comment about reliability. I looked through several sites that have empirical and statistical data on the platforms before committing to a platform. Between the first gen Toyota and the first gen Expedition it was a wash. The second gen Expedition was not quite as good as either of the first gens. Looking at the types of complaints on the second gen I figured it was issues I could deal with or work around if required if I found a truck I liked well enough.

Anyway, just another perspective and data. Ultimatately, you can't go wrong with either of these platforms. Go sit in a few examples of each and see which one "speaks" to you. I really wanted to like the Sequoia, it was what I had my mind set on when I started shopping but...

I found one UZJ100 to sit in (rare in this area) and between the concerns with rarity/spares and being "meh" from the driver's seat I wrote it off my list.

HTH

 

[Root Moose]

RE: frame... this is from eyeballing them while shopping so look it up if you care enough to be precise... the 1st gen Sequoia is boxed, probably ~5" tall in profile. The 1st gen Expedition is C channel, maybe 10" tall. All the Toyotas I looked at had heavy rust along the welds where the two C channels were welded together to make the box section. The Ford's rust was much less I'm guessing since it was not an enclosed space being a C channel. All the bodies and other underside structures on the Toyotas showed heavier rust than the Fords I looked at also. Tit for tat on kilometers and where located. My theory is that Ford uses better galvanizing but I can't base that on anything other that my empirical experience.

 

[calicamper]

Yes the older gen Sequoia is boxed and my California 07 Sequoia looks brand new on the underside not a spot of rust, but its a CA car! The 2003 Suburban grandpa had which lived in Michigan till 2011 and moved to CA was a total rust bucket on the under side. The rear calipers actually locked up on him thanks to rust about a year after he moved to CA. I sold it pretty sure its in Mexico now and he drives a 2005 mint condition SLK 350 barn find I found last year with 13,000 miles on it.

 

[unplannedbbq]

Good, thoughtful advice from all. That's why I love ExPo. Thanks folks.

Asking prices around here (Charlotte, NC) are surprisingly close for comparable Sequoias, Expeditions, and Suburbans/Yukon XLs. I'm shooting for under 150K, under $8K (preferably less). We'll be test driving anything we find this week.

Useful engine info: I dislike the 4.7's timing belt on toyotas; years of subarus as a kid have me gun-shy around interference engines. Bigger ford engine = bigger rear dif, also good to know. Inexpensive domestic transmissions rebuild -> also good to remember.

There are lots of rust-free frames around here, (I hope to never go back north during winter). Bountiful seam rust on a southern car has me thinking "flood damage." I did a full rust abatement/restoration on my westy, and I don't want to do that project again.

I'm trying to stay away from air ride suspensions on all platforms. Looks like I can easily (simply, perhaps not easily) update/improve suspension on all three platforms, for less $$$ than I had feared. That's nice to know.

Planning to pay for our top picks to be inspected at respective dealerships to find "everything" that needs to be fixed.

PS - No plans for trail riding; we had a 95 wrangler from new for 14 years. 2nd baby meant good bye to the Jeep. I can always pick up a JK 2 door if I get the itch again!

 

[calicamper]

Couple of used car tricks I've learned in the past few years. Get the Vin and call the local dealer during the less busy time of the day 1:30-2pm ish and tell the service manager your looking at a vehicle and ask if he can just eye the history and answer questions. Like whats the last service on record and what was the mileage and location of the service? - Where was it originally purchased etc. I've found that every used car I purchased the local dealer would answer my simple questions and it helped shed some light on the vehicles history. I know two friends who used this approach and found that the vehicle they were considering had the odometer rolled back which is a huge issue here on the West coast right now. Very easy to roll back the Odometers on modern cars. Example - service manager says last service was a transmission service in Texas at 215,000 miles but the truck odometer and seller are claiming it only has 98,000 miles on it. hmmm? Carfax is very very very generic info I sorta view it as a very very small piece of data vs several points of info like sellers records, the dealer call and chat with the service manager looking up the vin etc.

 

[calicamper]

I like the 4.7 in the Sequoia its a nice engine the timing belt thing doesn't concern me but the service isn't cheap and you do need to have it done correctly. With my subaru and the toyota I find many people try to take the cheap route on the timing belt and go to the lowest bidder and it generally ends up costing them big due to damaged tensioners not handled correctly during install, cheap parts used - the work not actually being done but getting charged for it etc. Vs when it comes to the TB I take it to the dealer given the dealer stands to take a hit to the pocket book if they don't do it correctly. And in theory their techs should be very familiar with the proper service process needed to avoid messing up tensioners during the service etc.

 

[rayra]

on towing, both our K1500 (1/2-ton) Z71 Tahoe and Suburban came with 12,000-lb capacity hitch systems and 'trailer mode' switches that alter the trans shifting behaviour to better suit towing heavy loads. We've towed boats and stuffed dual-axle Uhaul trailers with our Tahoe without any difficulty at all.
And I hope to tow a Coleman evolution3 camper trailer with the Suburban on a Death valley trip by next spring. But its trans is seemingly sloppier as I flog it around the southland this past 10mos since I bought it at 118k mi. Considering my trans options on that. I got that '02 K1500 Z71 Sub with 118k in very good condition inside and out last November for $6000. There's a stiff increase in price range at each generation. 2000-2002, 2003-2006, etc. There's also about a $1200 diff in price for no substantive reason between the Chevy and GMC brandings of the same vehicles. Go GMC and stretch your dollar, if the branding / grill styling doesn't matter to you.

 

[unplannedbbq]

on towing, both our K1500 (1/2-ton) Z71 Tahoe and Suburban came with 12,000-lb capacity hitch systems and 'trailer mode' switches that alter the trans shifting behaviour to better suit towing heavy loads. There's also about a $1200 diff in price for no substantive reason between the Chevy and GMC brandings of the same vehicles. Go GMC and stretch your dollar, if the branding / grill styling doesn't matter to you.

For no particular reason, we like the Yukon XL better than suburbans, so that's good for me!

 

[Root Moose]

I wouldn't stress about the timing belt that much. It's just another maintenance item. Yes it costs money but if you like the truck don't let that sway your choice IMO.

The air ride stuff is not a big deal either in my opinion. If you end up with one that breaks after you buy it get it fixed and it'll last another X years (how old is the truck?).

Expedition is trivial to convert to coils - at least the first gen is. Can't speak to the others. FWIW when I lifted my Expedition on Saturday the passenger side rear coil was snapped at the pig tail. Not a big deal to fix. Pair of replacement Moog coils are ~$90 online.

 

[justcuz]

GMT 800 lifts 2" or less are easy too. Hummer H2 rear coils and Ford torsion bar keys, done. Unless you want to upgrade shocks. I run 285/75x16 tires (32") with no rubbing.
2" of lift on an Expedition and I think you can run even larger tires.
Toyota rear axle is an 8.4" ring gear but I never hear of them failing.
Basically if it was me I would shop price and condition. All are good vehicles, each has its own little Achilles Heel, but none are real bad.
Time to test drive and see which one suits your fancy. We expect a full report! Insert smiley icon here.

 

[Root Moose]

Yep, I'm running 305/65-18 (33.6" tall). 2" spacers in the back, that is it.

 

[94toy22re]

I'm Toyota biased but i do have 205k miles of experience in my company supplied 2008 EX-L Expedition 4x4, it was mostly highway miles and has been a good truck besides a leaky thermostat housing at 180k and the 4x4 ecm going out twice. The most off my off pavement driving was muddy construction sites which it did fine but i wouldn't want to take it anywhere more challenging then that. I would much rather have a solid rear axle Sequoia for exploring back roads. i was looking at Sequoia for my personnel vehicle but found a v8 4runner for a good price and i have no regrets. I just did the timing belt on the 4.7 and it was very Straight forward, I bought everything OEM tensioner, two bearings, timing belt, water pump, 3 gallons of toyota red coolant and a crank pulley holder and it came out to a little under $400.

 

[Ivan]

1997.5-2002 Expedition. Extremely reliable 5.4 2v motor, same 4r100 tranny as on the SuperDuty, beefy 9.75 solid axle in the rear.

I love mine, and do not plan on getting rid of it. Spacious, capable, and if I was so inclined I could basically replace all the running gear (engine, transmission, TC) with new or refurbished parts from pretty much any local parts store for about 5-8k.

It really is a neat hidden gem. Now if only the 4v motor on the similar vintage Navigator was more reliable, that too would be a great vehicle.

 

[stom_m3]

Looking for advice - we have an '86 westy. 2WD w/ stock engine, an LSD on the 4-speed, mild lift. We love the interior room & self-contained convenience for our family of 4. I've taken it apart and built everything back up. Since moving down south, we don't like the lack of AC & low power. I don't want to do an engine transplant.We're planning to keep the VW for a long time, but mostly use it for "within 200 mile tow" trips in cool weather.

Just sold a CRV, so I have some "toy" cash on hand. I'm looking at picking up a 01-06 4WD Sequoia or Expedition. I built the VW w/ modular designs, so I can swap gear (solar, compressor, edgestar, etc.) between vehicles.

Planned use for a full-size rig would be outer banks, national forest "4wd only" remote sites, and the once a year 3-4 week trips to mexico or western national parks. Mild mods only expected to truck.

Any recommendations or warnings as I look at used rigs?

I have a decent shop at home & can do most wrenching myself.

Thanks!

I do a lot of my excursions with my friend who has a 2000 Ford Expedition. His main complaints about the Expedition are lack of power, squeaks, rattles, no interior room, and no interior flexibility. As well as, he's also had a lot more knick knacky stuff fail including some major items which could have potentially left him stranded if they didn't happen close to his home. I have a 2nd gen Sequoia so can't compare exactly to the 1st gen Sequoia. That said, he just bought a 2nd gen Sequoia though more to fit his family of 6 than anything else. He has commented that he loves the extra power of the Sequoia 5.7 and his kids love the comfort and room.