Expedition Portal: The Land Rover 109 IIA Build
- Thread starter MattScott
- Start date
blue bomber
Adventurer
Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread. Just want to clear up general misconceptions. My bad.
MattScott
Approved Vendor
Temporary bypass for the rear differential
Now that the rear differential is more done than burnt toast, I've had to find a workaround to get me back and forth to work until my differential shows up.
This is something I've come to appreciate about the Series - Options. I was able to remove my driveshaft, and rear axles as a leisurely pace in under a half hour.
The Axle Flanges are held on by (6) 15 MM bolts
I removed the axle shaft itself, and replaced the flange to keep some gear oil in the axle to lubricate the bearings.
Finished product after cleanup.
It's amazing how much quieter it is.
Now that the rear differential is more done than burnt toast, I've had to find a workaround to get me back and forth to work until my differential shows up.
This is something I've come to appreciate about the Series - Options. I was able to remove my driveshaft, and rear axles as a leisurely pace in under a half hour.
The Axle Flanges are held on by (6) 15 MM bolts
I removed the axle shaft itself, and replaced the flange to keep some gear oil in the axle to lubricate the bearings.
Finished product after cleanup.
It's amazing how much quieter it is.
blue bomber
Adventurer
3/8th BSF or 6 point 15mm 
TeriAnn
Explorer
3/8th BSF or 6 point 15mm
Or 5/16th Whitworth. For those who might be interested, I have a spanner gap chart in my web site. Only the last couple of years of Series production had metric fittings. Otherwise, the axle assemblies, gearbox and transfercase were mostly Whitworth.
It never hurts to own a partial Whitworth spanner set.
3/16 - The little nuts holding the transfercase bottom plate and I think the retaining bolts for the big swivel housing seal
1/4 - Common use
5/16 - Common use on the transfercase. You will need a 5/16ths socket for the nuts inside the transfercase holding it to the gearbox
3/8 - The transfercase mounting bracket fixings and a couple other places
You might also consider a 7/16 and a 1/2 spanner. They are not as commonly used as the other sizes and you can normally get an adjustable spanner in where these nuts are located.
An important thing to take away from the above pictures is the axle flange bolts referenced above takes 28 ft pounds of torque. It is fairly common to see hubs with bolts broken inside because someone went wild over tightening those bolts. When I bought my truck I had to replace 2 hubs because flange bolts were broken inside the holes.
For extra credit since we have a new Series owner & a picture of a wheel: wheel lug nuts are spec'ed at 75-85 lb ft of torque. Memorize this spec. If you have your wheels R&Red at a tyre shop make sure they write the correct number on the work order sheet and talk directly to the guy doing the work. The mechanic tends to dutifully look up the torque spec on his chart then proceed to torque the lug nuts down to the Toyota Land Cruiser specification which is about 30 lb ft greater than the Series LR spec.
AND when you have wheels balanced make sure it is at a shop with a balancer that can lug mount the wheels. Wheels are normally mounted to a balancer with a cone through the centre hole. Land Rover steel wheels have the lug holes centered but not the centre hole. Your wheels will be off balance when finished if a hub mount is used.
Back to your regular programming ... :lurk:
toddz69
Explorer
ShearPin
Adventurer
Congrats - watching this thread with great interest. Back when I set out to find a Series yours was the exact one I wanted - late IIa 109 station wagon with the wire grill and lights in the wings.
Just to further confuse the issue regarding your diff woes - I am not sure if Great Basin still makes their manual locker. I upgraded to strengthened 10 spline Great Basin shafts in early 2000 - I've had them in ever since. My dream set up was the manual Great Basin locker with strengthened shafts. The manual locker gave you a 4 pinion diff and, if I recall correctly, an upgraded spline count. The locker is manually activated with a wrench on the hud - prefect for a Series Rover. It seemed every time I had the money something more pressing needed fixing.
Also, I suggest running with the stock drivetrain as well. I've run some long trips with the 2.25 and while slow it is reliable an easy to work on. I invested in a Roverdrive roughly 6 years into my Series Rover ownership - another great upgrade.
Henry
Just to further confuse the issue regarding your diff woes - I am not sure if Great Basin still makes their manual locker. I upgraded to strengthened 10 spline Great Basin shafts in early 2000 - I've had them in ever since. My dream set up was the manual Great Basin locker with strengthened shafts. The manual locker gave you a 4 pinion diff and, if I recall correctly, an upgraded spline count. The locker is manually activated with a wrench on the hud - prefect for a Series Rover. It seemed every time I had the money something more pressing needed fixing.
Also, I suggest running with the stock drivetrain as well. I've run some long trips with the 2.25 and while slow it is reliable an easy to work on. I invested in a Roverdrive roughly 6 years into my Series Rover ownership - another great upgrade.
Henry
greenmeanie
Adventurer
The bolts more likely failed due to fatigue. You need to know how to read the fracture surface to explain such a failure.
Knowing the values from the manual is well and good but if you rely on a tyre shop to set the torque you will be lucky to be within 25% of those values. If you care that much you should buy a good tool, know how to install the nuts properly so as to achieve the correct running torque, apply the torque wrench correctly and have fun. You do calibrate your torque wrench don't you? If you don't you'll never accurately be in the tolerance window.
Rovers just aren't that sensitive to wheel balance. I've run Audis that are sensitive to tyre balance and I've run a fleet of Rovers for more than a decade and had everything from 9.00X16 bias ply bar grips, LT road bias radials to Nokian tyres balanced on hub centric machines and the trucks run without vibration. If your tyre shop is even half way decent they can balance accurately enough this way.
Rovers are not racing cars. Experienced owners know this.
TeriAnn
Explorer
So you are basically saying that it is not worth the effort to try and do things correctly? That our Rovers would not know the difference and there is really no reason for the factory to provide torque specs? During the past 34 years I have never had a flange bolt fail on me and most of them were on the tuck when I bought it. I just torque them to factory spec and they just work. Why do you have a problem using factory torque specs?
I may not be as experienced as you having spent the last 34 years with only one Land Rover, but I have a fair idea that she responds better if I make an effort to keep her within factory spec and follow the specs provided in the workshop manual.
Maybe the difference is that girls tend to read the manual & follow it. Guys know they don't have to read the manual because they are born with the car gene. Or maybe you just like to be argumentative for the fun of it??? :sport_box
I think all he is saying is that Land Rovers Series have a greater tolerance to inadequate torque than a new Audi RS8....
greenmeanie
Adventurer
I am merely pointing out that your post, based on some rater dubious observations, came across as condescending.
You seem to think that the 'new owner' despite his demonstrated experience is incapable of reading a manual and exhibiting mechanical competence. I am sure that he is quite capable of at least basic understanding fastener torque and is quite capable of reading the maual too, gender handicap or not. Your post came over as trying to teach grandma to suck eggs.
You have no way of telling how these bolts failed but chose to present a subjective observation as factual to support your case. Under torque will fail these bolts just as easily as over torque but in a different way. There is nothing special, secret or requiring years of study to obtain an understanding of the Rover ju ju about that torque call out on a 3/8th BSF bolt. Thousands of Series Rover owners will prove that in this application, while correct torque is good, it is just not very sensitive to it so it hardly requires special mention.
It is also quite laughable to think you are making a credable effort to achieve a 5lbsft tolerance on a torque by asking the tyre shop guy nicely. That is not making an effort, it is trusting a SWAG. Common sense dictates that for any rare vehicle you supply this value. If you care about torque you always check it after leaving the tyre shop and preferrably in their car park so you can turn round and provide a bit of 'constructive criticism' if they have done it wrong.
I can talk about factors affecting achieving accurate torque values stated in the manual all day but I also understand that the average home mechanic tools don't operate to these tolerances. From a cummulative ownership of over 40 years of Rovers plus evidence from any number of other series owners out there I know that Rover understood this and that its target market would conduct field maintenance without torque tools and bore it in mind when they designed the truck to be very tolerant. Good mechanical practices are always desireable but the series Rover is not a racing car. The truck is 40 years old and should be maintained accordingly.
I am not arguing. I am pointing out that your post, in spite of your 34 years of experience, demonstrated a lack of understanding of this.
You seem to think that the 'new owner' despite his demonstrated experience is incapable of reading a manual and exhibiting mechanical competence. I am sure that he is quite capable of at least basic understanding fastener torque and is quite capable of reading the maual too, gender handicap or not. Your post came over as trying to teach grandma to suck eggs.
You have no way of telling how these bolts failed but chose to present a subjective observation as factual to support your case. Under torque will fail these bolts just as easily as over torque but in a different way. There is nothing special, secret or requiring years of study to obtain an understanding of the Rover ju ju about that torque call out on a 3/8th BSF bolt. Thousands of Series Rover owners will prove that in this application, while correct torque is good, it is just not very sensitive to it so it hardly requires special mention.
It is also quite laughable to think you are making a credable effort to achieve a 5lbsft tolerance on a torque by asking the tyre shop guy nicely. That is not making an effort, it is trusting a SWAG. Common sense dictates that for any rare vehicle you supply this value. If you care about torque you always check it after leaving the tyre shop and preferrably in their car park so you can turn round and provide a bit of 'constructive criticism' if they have done it wrong.
I can talk about factors affecting achieving accurate torque values stated in the manual all day but I also understand that the average home mechanic tools don't operate to these tolerances. From a cummulative ownership of over 40 years of Rovers plus evidence from any number of other series owners out there I know that Rover understood this and that its target market would conduct field maintenance without torque tools and bore it in mind when they designed the truck to be very tolerant. Good mechanical practices are always desireable but the series Rover is not a racing car. The truck is 40 years old and should be maintained accordingly.
I am not arguing. I am pointing out that your post, in spite of your 34 years of experience, demonstrated a lack of understanding of this.
MattScott
Approved Vendor
Wait, so I shouldn't have put them on finger fight? Damn...... (just kidding)
Teriann and greenmeanie both have some good points, I'll rarely bust out a torque wrench to be honest, especially if it's something I'd consider non-essential. However being that axles on vehicles are usually essential to move, and on the series they're and in question - it's something I'd bust out a torque wrench for.
Teriann and greenmeanie both have some good points, I'll rarely bust out a torque wrench to be honest, especially if it's something I'd consider non-essential. However being that axles on vehicles are usually essential to move, and on the series they're and in question - it's something I'd bust out a torque wrench for.
greenmeanie
Adventurer
If a diff becomes a becomes a problem I know of a couple of 4.70 diffs kicking around in Chandler. They are not in their first youth but they should be cheap as a temporary measure.
Pasadena Matt
New member
Really happy for you Matt and will be following the thread...I have a Series that I am starting to rebuild, but you guys are seriously intimidating...best of luck to you.
MattScott
Approved Vendor
One of my projects for this weekend was figuring out where all of these rattles were coming from.
I think I have a few solved.
Apparently over the course of the trucks life quite a few bolts have rattled out, I spend a little bit of time figuring out where those rattles are coming from.
I also made my own set of noise mats for the front and middle of the vehicle. They're made from 1/2 inch thick rubber designed to be used in horse stall
Luckily most of the white/yellow adhesive that was there came off.
During my cleaning, I noticed that Ralph had a guest living with him in a prior time.
To see how much nicer it would drive, I took Carter and Ralph out on a little adventure.
I highly recommend the horse stall mat as an affordable option to cut down on NVH.
I think I have a few solved.
Apparently over the course of the trucks life quite a few bolts have rattled out, I spend a little bit of time figuring out where those rattles are coming from.
I also made my own set of noise mats for the front and middle of the vehicle. They're made from 1/2 inch thick rubber designed to be used in horse stall
Luckily most of the white/yellow adhesive that was there came off.
During my cleaning, I noticed that Ralph had a guest living with him in a prior time.
To see how much nicer it would drive, I took Carter and Ralph out on a little adventure.
I highly recommend the horse stall mat as an affordable option to cut down on NVH.
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